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Old 05-26-2005, 08:23 AM   #1
2NDSOUT
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Mad Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Saw this on the news yesterday that the Saturn ION was named one of a few vehicles that didn't do so hot in the new crash testing.

I thought the ION was built better than this?



Oh...wait...that's right, GM makes the Saturn now.

no more polymer, just a metal car in a metal frame that will become another rebadge of a chevy.

No more safety in a mid-size car.

After seeing this, I'll gladly stick to my classic S-Series. Thank you GM for screwing the Saturn population over with your rebadging and retooling.


Sorry about my ranting and raving...but isn't this the first "Saturn" to fail the NHTSA crash tests?

...
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Old 05-26-2005, 08:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

links, please?

As a side note, saw the Relay yesterday and I have to say, I've never felt so ashamed to own a Saturn, until now. The thing is absolutely horrendous. Same goes for the 2007 (?) remodeled Vue Looks=crappy crash test=crappy - is Saturn jockeying to be the new Hyundai?

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Last edited by Dissonanc3; 05-26-2005 at 08:42 AM..

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Old 05-26-2005, 08:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Quote:
Oh...wait...that's right, GM makes the Saturn now.
GM's always made the Saturn. it's a GM car. get over it only the S-series didn't "share" a platform or powertrain with the rest of GM.

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Old 05-26-2005, 08:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Here is a link to the site they are talking about I think. At least we did better than the Cobalt.

http://www.nhtsa.com/portal/site/nht...e=PressRelease

Last edited by saturnguy0077; 05-26-2005 at 08:43 AM.. Reason: missed info

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Old 05-26-2005, 08:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Side Impact is what I was talking about here.

Here is one link that I have found. I heard this on CNN yesterday only for a few minutes and it kind of surprised me.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...side/s0426.htm

...
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Old 05-26-2005, 08:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

look! there's bloodstains! (bottom right pic)

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Old 05-26-2005, 08:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by eRic 02sc2
GM's always made the Saturn. it's a GM car. get over it only the S-series didn't "share" a platform or powertrain with the rest of GM.

That's what I am getting at...at least the S-Series didn't share a platform with like 6 other cars now, like they all do....

...
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Old 05-26-2005, 09:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

With all due respect.... how would the s series have done in this new test ???
The current crop undergo different test than any of the 1st and 2nd S series ever did.
The ION got a 3 out of 5 from NHTSA in this crash test. 5 stars front. It's all variable.
Our s series was never tested by the IIHS beyond a front crash according to the site.
Don't YOU feel a little less safe now, not knowing how thE s Series fared in a side impact test and having no data to suggest an S series would do any better than the ION?
I'm jerking you around a little 2ndsout but trying to make the point that the Feds got another reading on the data than did the IIHS, there is no data that I could find on the IIHS site for side crash test results on the s series and the fact that there are so many variables in real world accidents there's really no way of knowing.Weights heights sizes of vehicles all vary as do speeds and by the miilisecond given the mix on our roads. best to say "Your results may vary" and take it all with a pound of salt.
Ever seen Bertillion's ION crash test photos?
There's no way of knowing how the old s Series would have done on any of the new tests, so a comparison of the 2 is not exactly valid. and to assume it's all GM's fault..... well if you can provide some S Series side impact test data for comparison.... I don't think the two are even in the same weight class.
Check the Institute for Highway Loss Data, the sister org of the IIHS and you will find the ION does better than the Focus, Lancer, Civic, etc in actual accidents.

Last edited by Citation84; 05-26-2005 at 09:18 AM..

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Old 05-26-2005, 10:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Cobalt did worse than Ion (both 4 doors) in both driver frontal & front passenger side crash tests. Interestingly, the Ion QC did better than the 4 door in the side tests. So on average, the Ion is safer than the Cobalt.

However, IIHS shows that Cobalt did great in frontal & Ion was only acceptable, both did poor in side impact (both 4 door).

It's all in the test setup. I just hope my test setup is like the one use for testing @ www.safercar.gov when I crash.

J

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Old 05-26-2005, 11:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Well, I don't know how it would be consider one of the worst on the road.
It has 5-star front for driver and passanger, 3 stars front side, and 4 stars rear side.

Seeing as most 2005 model year cars haven't even been test for side impacts you can't say how they'll do, and then for 2005 model year cars here's some ratings.

Saturn Ion Sedan
FD 5/5, FP 5/5, SF 3/5, SR 4/5
Saturn Ion Coupe
FD 5/5, FP 5/5, SF 4/4, SR 4/4

2005 Audi A4/S4
4/5, 4/4, 5/5, 4/5

BMW 3-series WITH SIDE IMPACT AIRBAGS
4/5, 5/5, 3/5, 5/5

BMW Z4 again with side impact airbags
4/5, 4/5, 3/5

Buick Century with or without side airbags
4/5, 3/5, 3/5, 3/5

Buick Lacrosse
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5

Chevy Aveo
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5

Monte Carlo
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 4/5

Focus 4-door
5/5, 4/5, 3/5, 4/5
2-door
4/5, 4/5, 3/5, 4/5

Civic 2-door
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 4/5

Honda Insight
4/5, 4/5, 4/5

Kia Rio
4/5, 4/5, 2/5, 2/5

Kia Spectra
4/5, 4/5, 4/5, 3/5

Mazda3
4/5, 4/5, 3/5, 3/5

Mazda6
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 4/5

Mitsubishi Lancer
4/5, 4/5, 2/5, 4/5

Nissan Altima
5/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5

Nissan Maxima w/sab
5 4 4 4

Nissan Sentra
4 4 2 No Data
.... there's more but I'm tired of this.

Cars that have no test data but are currently on the market:
2005 Acura NSX-T Convertible
2005 Audi A4/S4 Cabriolet Convertible (PC/Me)
2005 Audi A6 Sedan 4-DR w/SAB (PC/Me)
2005 Audi A8 4-DR. w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 Bentley Arnage R 4-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 Bentley Arnage RL 4-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 Bentley Arnage T 4-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 Bentley Continental GT 2-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 BMW 3 Series 2-DR w/SAB
2005 BMW 5 Series 4-DR w/SAB
2005 BMW 6 Series 2-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 BMW 7 Series 4-DR w/SAB (PC/H)
2005 BMW M3 2-DR w/SAB (PC/Me)
2005 Cadillac STS 4-DR w/SAB
2005 Cadillac XLR Convertible w/SAB
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt 2-DR
Again, the list goes on, I haven't even gotten out of the letter C with them listed in Alphabetical order!

...
Bob

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Old 05-26-2005, 11:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

DAMN (lurking)

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Old 05-26-2005, 02:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Another thing, the S-series sedans did worse than the Ion in side impact testing.
In side impacts that 2002 S-series got
3 stars front, and 2 stars rear; whereas, the Ion got 3 stars front, and 4 stars rear.

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Old 05-26-2005, 02:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

I'm not seeing what's so bad about getting a "3".

The press is playing on words. If all cars got 5s, and the Ion got a 4, it would still be considered the worst. They're not lying...just not presenting the facts in a non-biased manner.

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Old 05-26-2005, 02:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

There's no doubt that the S Series would fare poorly in today's crash tests, especially the more severe IIHS tests. (The IIHS actually did test the SL2 in the offset frontal test.) But the bar has been raised, and cars today are held to a higher standard.

The tests do have limitations, and yes, they show how a car would perform in a particular precise set of circumstances. But the results have proven to be repeatable, and they do give a pretty good idea of how different cars compare. For example, I'd rather be in a Saab 9-3 than a Chevy Cobalt in a crash, and under equal circumstances, I'll bet the Saab will come out ahead just about every time!

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Old 05-27-2005, 01:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
There's no doubt that the S Series would fare poorly in today's crash tests, especially the more severe IIHS tests.
Very true. Many of today's "mediocre" cars are still much safer than the safest cars of ten years ago.

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Old 05-27-2005, 08:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2NDSOUT
That's what I am getting at...at least the S-Series didn't share a platform with like 6 other cars now, like they all do....
I understand where you are coming from, but does it really matter?...No

Who cares if a car is on a platform unique to itself, or if it's on a platform shared with 500 other vehicles? What's the difference. It's not going to change the car in question. The quality of the platform matters a lot more than what it's shared with.

If GM had decided to build a Chevy on the S Series platform would that have made it less appealing to you?

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Old 05-28-2005, 06:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Since when did a 5 star crash rating from the front end up being a bad test result? The glorified S-Series would never have passed the crash tests the same way as the curren ION does.

The VUE gets a Quadruple 5 star crash rating (even without side airbags). Thats 20 total stars. Saturn still makes safe cars.

I like the fact that my ION Quad Coupe (redline) is safer than a sedan

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Old 05-28-2005, 08:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

interesting.....

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Old 05-28-2005, 09:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Speed Player said it best: even the worst of today are better than the cars of the previous decade.
This is a whole new side test, everyone. It was never done on an S Series, so no one even knows how it would have scored. Several compacts that did well in the prior version of the test are no longer ranked so high. This test uses as it's criteria a hypothetical small heavier taller SUV as the crash mule, not another car of the same height size and weight.
The next generation of small car designs will factor in this test for sure. But they don't hold up to it TODAY. A 3 is pretty impressive.
The star ratings are a moving target. What was a 5 star rating 10 years ago, would be a two star today.
I went from an 86 Calais to a 99 Cavalier w/ abs, trac. control, air bags and a horrible side impact result. The Olds had none of those things and never underwent any but the most rudimentary tests at the time. Was I more or less safe.
I drive an ION now with air bags no abs or traction control. And a 3 star side crash rating as opposed to a 1.
Am I now more or less safe?
My hobby car is a 63 Plymouth Valiant with drum brakes, a metal dashboard no power steering [and 5 turns lock to lock] and seat belts. I have owned it for 25 years. It was never crash tested. I have no fear of driving it anywhere on a daily basis.
There are so many variables as well as ever changing standards for these tests, you really cannot compare the ION and the S Series. One is a compact the other a subcompact one weighs 2400 lbs or so the other 2800 lbs. This is in no way a valid or fair comparison. Using today's standards to compare the ION to the S Series crash results is not even possible. So to suggest that GM screwed it up with the ION and that the S Series is a better car in a crash is simply not verifiable or even true. Unless the S Series undergoes the same test right now and is only compared with subcompacts of the same size and weight, will you have some sort of legitimate comparative. Even then the two cars are not in the same weight class, so the comparison is immediately invalid.
A car from 94 95 etc. simply will not do as well in these tests, no matter how good they were when they came out.
Again check the Highway Loss Data Institute site for actual injury and accident results in the public hand's and not some dummy's.

Last edited by Citation84; 05-28-2005 at 09:52 AM..

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Old 05-28-2005, 01:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2NDSOUT
Saw this on the news yesterday that the Saturn ION was named one of a few vehicles that didn't do so hot in the new crash testing.

I thought the ION was built better than this?



Oh...wait...that's right, GM makes the Saturn now.

no more polymer, just a metal car in a metal frame that will become another rebadge of a chevy.

No more safety in a mid-size car.

After seeing this, I'll gladly stick to my classic S-Series. Thank you GM for screwing the Saturn population over with your rebadging and retooling.


Sorry about my ranting and raving...but isn't this the first "Saturn" to fail the NHTSA crash tests?
Bull. Did CR do these tests or what? The IIHS or whatever rated them 4 out of 5 stars. Saturn seems to think that they are 5 out of 5. Do you have any links?

...
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