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Old 10-22-2009, 08:44 PM   #1
Kotofeich
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2007 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default RPMs do not drop while coasting

Can't quite find any threads that fit so...

I have an ION 3 2.4 with a manual transmission.
When the engine is warm and I put the transmission in neutral and coast, the RPMs do not drop, but remain between 1500 and 2000. As soon as I stop the RPMs drop to the proper ~800.
Very rarely the RPM would jump to 3000 as I stop and just as quickly drop.
This doesn't happen every day, but seems to be associated with driving in traffic with lots of slowing down, accelerating and coasting.
The pedals are not getting caught in anything - I checked

I'm having trouble getting the mechanics to reproduce this (of course ), so if anyone had something similar happen or can suggest something - please do. I want to get this fixed while there still is a Saturn shop around here.

Thanks!

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Old 10-22-2009, 08:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Could be the TPS

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Old 10-22-2009, 08:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotofeich View Post
Can't quite find any threads that fit so...

I have an ION 3 2.4 with a manual transmission.
When the engine is warm and I put the transmission in neutral and coast, the RPMs do not drop, but remain between 1500 and 2000. As soon as I stop the RPMs drop to the proper ~800.
Very rarely the RPM would jump to 3000 as I stop and just as quickly drop.
This doesn't happen every day, but seems to be associated with driving in traffic with lots of slowing down, accelerating and coasting.
The pedals are not getting caught in anything - I checked

I'm having trouble getting the mechanics to reproduce this (of course ), so if anyone had something similar happen or can suggest something - please do. I want to get this fixed while there still is a Saturn shop around here.

Thanks!
its normal to be around 1500ish , when still going, depends how fast you going in gear?

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Old 10-22-2009, 08:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

normal. jumping to 3000RPMs, however, is not.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystal scan View Post
its normal to be around 1500ish , when still going, depends how fast you going in gear?
Sorry if I did not explain well enough. RPMs are at 1500 while coasting in neutral.
My understanding is that (and this happens most of the time) the RPMs should drop to the idle level of 800 since from the engines point of view there is no difference between such coasting and standing still.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadIon View Post
Could be the TPS
Is there a reliable way to test with a multimeter and whatnot?
Thanks!

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotofeich View Post
Sorry if I did not explain well enough. RPMs are at 1500 while coasting in neutral.
My understanding is that (and this happens most of the time) the RPMs should drop to the idle level of 800 since from the engines point of view there is no difference between such coasting and standing still.
oh ok then? so should i try it in my automatic

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

The rpm's on my 2007 ION-3 2.4L drop to around 850 coasting or at a full stop in neutral.

Sorry brother I do not know how to test the TPS.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystal scan View Post
oh ok then? so should i try it in my automatic
I don't think it'd work What with different transmissions and clutch setupl But thanks for trying to help!

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotofeich View Post
I don't think it'd work What with different transmissions and clutch setupl But thanks for trying to help!
i try to coast on the few down hills we have around heres its hard coating in the bay area when most of the drivers have lead feet, i see soccer moms floor there vans while i tend to all allcerate 2500-3k while the soccer moms floor it, you have to watch out for the those soccer moms

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Old 10-23-2009, 09:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

sometimes when im coming to a stop and im holding the clutch and pressing on the break to slow down, the RPM stays at around 1500 as if im revving it on purpose until i come to a complete stop, then it drops down right away to around 850 like normal. Its always done this to me on random occasions, i dont know why, but i take it its normal....

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Old 10-23-2009, 10:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotofeich View Post
RPMs are at 1500 while coasting in neutral.
My understanding is that (and this happens most of the time) the RPMs should drop to the idle level of 800 since from the engines point of view there is no difference between such coasting and standing still.
no, that is not the way it is. I don't personally know the internals of the trans to tell you why, but what your car does is normal. I remember reading a technical explanation some time ago somewhere.

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Old 10-23-2009, 11:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

it's to make rev matching easier. crystalscan, as usual you missed that they have a manual while you have an auto, your transmission does not default to neutral when you coast.

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Old 10-24-2009, 12:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 ion2 View Post
it's to make rev matching easier.
If it's to make rev matching easier, why doesn't it happen all the time?

None of the other manual cars I've had acted this way, albeit all of them were older.

The saturn mechanic agreed with me that this is a problem, but could not reproduce the issue at the time.

We'll try again this tuesday.

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Old 10-24-2009, 01:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

I've only noticed mine doing it at higher speeds, so my guess is since at lower speeds you always have a gear choice near idle, but at higher speeds you don't. all I know is it isn't a problem as a sole symptom. a bad TB/TPS will make the car drive like crap, not just idle high in neutral while moving. since it idles right while not moving, and goes down when you stop, and you refuse to accept it's normal, pay to get your ECU reflashed.

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Old 10-26-2009, 08:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

I'm not familiar with the 2.4 specifically, but a hanging high idle speed on most engines is a problem with either TPS or idle air control valve, or a vacuum leak. Could also be crap on the throttle butterfly that is preventing the throttle closing all the way.

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Old 10-26-2009, 06:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeCitySC2 View Post
...but a hanging high idle speed on most engines is a problem with either TPS or idle air control valve, or a vacuum leak. Could also be crap on the throttle butterfly that is preventing the throttle closing all the way.
Yes!!! Thank you!
Now, when I know what to look for, I found a ton of threads here with very similar issues! +1 to Rep.

I think I found a reliable way to get this to happen (Warm up, accelerate to 70-80, coast/brake to a stop without down-shifting, repeat about 4 times) and my appointment at the dealership is tomorrow. Hopefully we'll get this cleared up. (It's still under warranty, otherwise I'd be taking a peek at the throttle butterfly...)

Thanks everyone for your input!

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Old 11-02-2009, 10:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

Hey Koto,

What did the dealer service folks find? I'm especially curious to know as I have a recurring issue happening with my Ion that could be similar to your problem. It cropped up again Friday evening, worse than before and my amateur attempts to solve it have not helped.

I have a 2006 Ion sedan, 2.4 engine, 5-speed manual and it has a smidge over 54,1xx miles at the moment. My SES light winked on and my 1-2 upshifts became rough. The 2-3 shift is a off-kilter a bit, too. The 3-4 and 4-5 shifts and shifting from N to R are all normal. I ran a bottle of Heet through the fuel system and while I noted a slight improvement, the 1-2 shift is still not right. The engine revs don't fall off like they should between gears and the engine seems momentarily sluggish. The shifter and clutch both work as they always have.

Just for fun, I checked with OnStar today for a remote diagnostic and the clerk reported trouble in the "clutch-transmission" area and said my cruise control may be disabled. She said while the car should still shift, I should take it to a retailer at my convenience. I called my retailer and scheduled an appointment for this Friday morning.

I said this is a recurring issue because almost since the day I bought the car, I discovered that I could activate the SES light by simply being in rush hour traffic. I have diagnostic sheets showing a clutch-cruise issue and when the computer decides I'm riding the clutch too often, it throws on the SES light. Both my previous Ion and final SL2 were equipped with manual trans. and cruise and neither one did this to me.

In October of 2007, the light came on again. On the day of a St. Louis Saturn Fans gathering, I stopped at my retailer first to have them look at it but the service tech declined because he had one mechanic on duty that Saturday doing just oil changes. The tech suggested I change brands of fuel so I went to BP from QT. That seemed to do the trick until now.

I'll report back on Friday what they find. Hopefully, my GMPP extended warranty will cover it. The car hasn't been to the retailer for anything since I drove past 36,000 miles. I get its oil changed elsewhere and whatever else it's needed, I've replaced on my own.

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Old 11-14-2009, 09:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

The mechanics did see the problem and flashed the ECU.
They are following the GM's instructions, I guess, since they want the warranty reimbursement. The next step would be cleaning the idle air control valve.

I had the problem reoccur later the same day, but could not take the car to them since I had to leave on vacation. I'll be trying to reproduce the problem this week and then schedule another appointment.

Tethys, I searched the forum for the 'idle air control' keywords and found lots of posts that describe very similar issues. Most posts point to the idle air control valve being the culprit.

I'll report once I have more info on this...

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Old 11-14-2009, 11:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: RPMs do not drop while coasting

When I first my 2005 Ion, it did the same thing.
I disconected the battery for half an hour, and after about 3 days of driving, it stopped doing this, & the RPMs would drop to 1000 when coasting.


Hope this helps.

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