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Old 05-30-2020, 03:15 PM   #1
neurotopia
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Default Brake line length

Gotta redo the L300's rear brake lines. Offhand, does anybody know the length of them? Be much easier to fit everything if I don't have to pull the new ones back out to redo stuff.
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Brake line length

Because of all the twist and turns on the lines and because you can't just buy a line off the shelf, the usual method is remove the existing lines, then shape and bend the new lines to copy them.

I had new lines installed by my indi garage as I didn't want the hassle of doing it. On the rear lines, you have to drop the tank. Not great!
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Old 05-30-2020, 05:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Brake line length

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Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Because of all the twist and turns on the lines and because you can't just buy a line off the shelf, the usual method is remove the existing lines, then shape and bend the new lines to copy them.

I had new lines installed by my indi garage as I didn't want the hassle of doing it. On the rear lines, you have to drop the tank. Not great!
Thanks, I'm aware of this as I've done multiple cars, including my daughter's L200. Hence why I'm asking because guesstimating is a real pain in the butt when you don't have a lift. And no the tank does not have to come down, I can reach in around where they travel just fine.

Does anyone have an idea of the actual length if they were straightened out? I'll handle the bends.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Brake line length

neurotopia,

I have attempted to locate this information for you in my FSM.

I couldn't find the actual lines... perhaps I didn't know what chapter to look under. There are many and none actually list "brake lines".

I found 2 diagrams in the braking system that shows the lines on the entire car. This could provide you with a descent reference that could assist you.

If you know where I would be able to locate them in the FSM; I would be more than happy to provide you with screen shots!

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Old 05-31-2020, 12:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: Brake line length

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
neurotopia,

I have attempted to locate this information for you in my FSM.

I couldn't find the actual lines... perhaps I didn't know what chapter to look under. There are many and none actually list "brake lines".

I found 2 diagrams in the braking system that shows the lines on the entire car. This could provide you with a descent reference that could assist you.

If you know where I would be able to locate them in the FSM; I would be more than happy to provide you with screen shots!

~ Brandon
Thanks, I appreciate it. Looks like I'm gonna have to do it the hard way and cut the old stuff off to really figure it out. Blah.

I'm gonna run the left one down that side of the car instead of taking the crazy circuitous route of the stock line.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Brake line length

Hey, can you try to document the brake line repairs with photos etc...? I know it is a pain to take photos while playing crouching-tiger dropping down and getting up from underneath the Saturn on jack stands! I just finished replacing my e-brake cables and wire brushing the entire bottom, Rust Restorer-ed and painted the entire bottom on the Saturn... and I had hoped to take photos, but it was impossible because it was such a dirty rust filled pain in the rss!

I did inspect my brake lines and there are hard line spots that concern me. So I plan to replace the lines some day in the future or when they fail.

One thing I noticed and don't really understand is why they used a short hard line to each rear caliper, then a short flex line, then back to a hard line? Couldn't we simply connect a longer flex line directly to the caliper to the hard line if the bends would permit?

As far as each connection... do you know whether they all double flair or bubble connectors?

What are your thoughts?
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake line length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Hey, can you try to document the brake line repairs with photos etc...? I know it is a pain to take photos while playing crouching-tiger dropping down and getting up from underneath the Saturn on jack stands! I just finished replacing my e-brake cables and wire brushing the entire bottom, Rust Restorer-ed and painted the entire bottom on the Saturn... and I had hoped to take photos, but it was impossible because it was such a dirty rust filled pain in the rss!

I did inspect my brake lines and there are hard line spots that concern me. So I plan to replace the lines some day in the future or when they fail.

One thing I noticed and don't really understand is why they used a short hard line to each rear caliper, then a short flex line, then back to a hard line? Couldn't we simply connect a longer flex line directly to the caliper to the hard line if the bends would permit?

As far as each connection... do you know whether they all double flair or bubble connectors?

What are your thoughts?

Hi,

They're bubble flares, use appropriate metric flare nuts IIRC because if you do SAE they don't thread properly (double check me on that). My son has a 06 Mazda 3 and they have longer brake hoses like you suggested, no idea why Saturn is set up the way it is. I've no plans to jury-rig anything like that, the short runs of brake line are no biggie. Maybe they couldn't get a caliper that worked with the hoses or there wasn't enough clearance or something.

I will try to remember to photograph things but honestly I'm terrible at that.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Brake line length

It is inconvenient when the manufacturers donít use flex lines where needed for maintenance. The rear on our cars have flex lines where the suspension moves but not where the calipers need to be removed to replace wheel bearings or rotors. Steel lines are cheaper than flex lines and it all adds up to profit for the manufacturer. Once a car is out of warrantee they donít care. GM doesnít care anyways, I would never buy a new one. I also have a Ford, Chrysler and a GMC pickup, all purchased used. I have never and will never purchase a new car.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Brake line length

Are you recommending to use a longer length of flex to connect the main hard line directly to the caliper? I would like to get rid of the unnecessary connections and replace them with a single flex line.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Brake line length

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
It is inconvenient when the manufacturers donít use flex lines where needed for maintenance. The rear on our cars have flex lines where the suspension moves but not where the calipers need to be removed to replace wheel bearings or rotors. Steel lines are cheaper than flex lines and it all adds up to profit for the manufacturer. Once a car is out of warrantee they donít care. GM doesnít care anyways, I would never buy a new one. I also have a Ford, Chrysler and a GMC pickup, all purchased used. I have never and will never purchase a new car.
Same here.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Brake line length

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Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Are you recommending to use a longer length of flex to connect the main hard line directly to the caliper? I would like to get rid of the unnecessary connections and replace them with a single flex line.
Good luck finding one of the right length and flare nut size. If you're careful you can just re-use the flare nuts from the old one and have new lines flared and installed before you figure out which other hoses are compatible with your car.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Brake line length

You are not going to be able to find a hose like that. Disc brake rigs with a solid rear axles have three flex lines and steel lines also. It would have been nice if they put a flex line at each caliper also. It is possible to pull the caliper loose without disconnecting the steel line but if you live in the rust belt the lines wonít take it. They probably used steel since the pads can be replaced without removing the calipers.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Brake line length

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They're bubble flares, use appropriate metric flare nuts IIRC because if you do SAE they don't thread properly (double check me on that).
You are correct about the steel brake lines using metric bubble flare nuts. However, there are two types in this style: German and Japanese and they're not interchangeable. The Saturn L-Series cars have German bubble flares. This makes sense as the chassis is from Opel/Vauxhall, GM's defunct European division.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Brake line length

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Originally Posted by pierrot View Post
You are correct about the steel brake lines using metric bubble flare nuts. However, there are two types in this style: German and Japanese and they're not interchangeable. The Saturn L-Series cars have German bubble flares. This makes sense as the chassis is from Opel/Vauxhall, GM's defunct European division.
Interesting. I did not know this. Do you have any more info about that? A quick google just gave me pages of "German vs Japanese Kitchen Knives". I'm gonna hazard a guess that most kits (I got Summit's nice one) come with the German version and I got lucky, because the car's never leaked!
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Brake line length

^That information came from a local store owner who pointed out the difference to me. I was purchasing brake line items to come up with my own replacement for the r/h rear brake line to the caliper as the hex on the nut at the caliper was becoming stripped. Thinking about it later, I did recall that when my father had his store there were two different types of metric bubble lines that we stocked (and we sold very few of them).
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Old 06-24-2020, 12:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Brake line length

Today, I'm driving the Saturn and the brake peddle went mushy and I noticed the brake fluid was way low. I had a thought of when I was beating the heat shield back into shape (finishing the e-brake job) that perhaps I fouled up the brake lines in that area. Nope, the brake line that goes up and over to the rear driver's side tire has sprung a big leak! Absolutely a new failure... not unexpected after inspecting the lines I could see. This line disappears into the guts over the center of the suspension , I still can't see the leak, but it is leaking rather badly! The Saturn is grounded again!

Now what is it going to cost to buy brake line tools etc..., brake lines and the proper connectors?

I do agree the driver's side rear line will be routed on the driver's side instead of above the suspension!

I might as well become a mechanic... because this car is sure testing me!
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Brake line length

I'm searching for tools to replace all brake lines in my 2000 L300 with ABS. I know nothing about replacing brake lines. I know its a bubble flare of some kind. Will this tool kit make the correct type of bubble flare to replace my brake lines? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

Also, what type of brake line do you guys recommend?
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: Brake line length

Save yourself some money. Use the Loaner program from the auto stores. Here's the link to Autozone and their flare tool loaner program.

https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tool...r-flaring-tool

You simply pay the cost of the tool kit. When you return it, they give you your money back. So if you pay by Credit card, the debit and credit will cancel one another out on the statement. Zero cost.

Also Rock Auto sell brake line piping and parts. look under "Tools and Universal parts", then "Hose, Lines & Clamps". Once there look under "Hydraulic Lines". They stock Steel, Poly armored Steel and Nickel Copper piping.

Last edited by floridasl22002; 06-24-2020 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Brake line length

What diameter is the brake line on Saturns?
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Brake line length

https://store.fedhillusa.com/technic...howtopdfs.aspx
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