SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2007, 12:11 PM   #1
martx-5
Junior Member
martx-5 is on a distinguished road
 
martx-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 40
Default SL2 - Engine Stumble

For the past few weeks at lower engine speeds (below 3500rpm) and partial throttle, the engine stumbles and misses. If I stomp on the gas, the tranny downshifts, and there is no more stumble or miss. For two weeks, NO CEL (SES light). One morning I started the car, and got an immediate P0122...Throttle position switch low voltage. I cleared the code.

After driveing the car for another week, I'm not so sure that the problem is associated with the TPS. I haven't gotten the code again. This feels just like the car is misfiring.

Any thoughts??

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to martx-5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help martx-5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
martx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 04-27-2007, 01:08 PM   #2
BarnOwl
Super Member
BarnOwl is just really niceBarnOwl is just really niceBarnOwl is just really niceBarnOwl is just really nice
 
BarnOwl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hickory, NC
Posts: 10,029
 

2000 SW2
1998 SL2
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

I'm thinking dirty EGR valve.

...
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BarnOwl's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BarnOwl reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BarnOwl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 01:16 PM   #3
tarsun
Advanced Member
tarsun is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 748
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

for me it was a leaky valve cover. i fixed that and new plugs and the problem went away. it may be your iddle air controll valve tho....

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tarsun's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tarsun reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tarsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #4
martx-5
Junior Member
martx-5 is on a distinguished road
 
martx-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 40
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
I'm thinking dirty EGR valve.
This sounds plausible. I think the P0122 (TPS) was coincidental, as the problem I'm having started several weeks before the CEL came on. Also, it's been about a week since I cleared the code, and it hasn't come back.

I have new plugs and wires which I will put in as I've had them for several months waiting for the weather to warm up a bit. I don't think that this is the problem however, as an ignition misfire would show up very quickly as a P030x.

Can the EGR valve be successfully cleaned?? Or is a replacement the best way to go??

I'm assuming that it's not closing all the way when it's supposed to, allowing exhaust gases to enter the intake when they shouldn't be.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to martx-5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help martx-5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
martx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 04:27 PM   #5
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,610
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Actually, its probably closing and the easiest way to confirm this is to either pull the vacuum line and plug it or disconnect the wire connector temporarily. The idle speed should be normal before and after removing the vacuum line or electrical connector. That's it! No change in idle speed means that the EGR valve is in the closed position during idle. Its when the EFI system calls for the EGR valve to open is when the stumbling, hesitation, and/or stalling tendencies begin. Cleaning the pintle valve and seat as well as the shaft to enable smooth opening and closing will probably prolong its useful life.

The EGR valve's sole purpose is to allow exhaust gas into the intake manifold to cool the combustion process for emission control between 1200- 2500 rpm (approximately). If it stays open too long then too much exhaust dilutes the air/fuel mixture and the result is erratic engine running. Its not used at idle as it would just bog down the low idle so working at part throttle meets emission requirements. You can drive it this way while its closed and the engine should run dramatically better but don't do this too long.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 05:01 PM   #6
martx-5
Junior Member
martx-5 is on a distinguished road
 
martx-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 40
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

fdryer, Thanks for that explanation.

I'll try your suggestion, and see if the stumble goes away. If so, I know where I have to focus my attention.

Thanks, I'll report back when I find something out.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to martx-5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help martx-5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
martx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 09:14 AM   #7
martx-5
Junior Member
martx-5 is on a distinguished road
 
martx-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 40
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Well, I fixed the problem, but before I get to that, where the heck is the EGR valve?? I couldn't find it. BTW, this is a '96 SL2.

Anyway, the misfiring started to get worse, and it FINALLY set off a misfire code...P0302. Why did this take so long??

I changed the plugs and wires (which I've had for several months), and everything is fine now.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to martx-5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help martx-5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
martx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 10:17 AM   #8
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

EGR valve is on the left (CAR'S left) end of the cylinder head. Kinda between the head and the air intake tube. About the diameter of a Red Bull can (?) but shorter. Electrical connector on black plastic top, rest of it is metallic. Held on by one bolt and one stud; 10mm wrench.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to madpogue's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help madpogue reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 10:31 AM   #9
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,610
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Here's a link from another post;http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60814. Post #2

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 10:51 AM   #10
martx-5
Junior Member
martx-5 is on a distinguished road
 
martx-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 40
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Here's a link from another post;http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60814. Post #2
Thanks for that link. I looked at that item several times and thought that must be it, but for some reason I changed my mind and thought "Nah, that can't be it" And, by this time I had a hard code P0302 misfire (finally after THREE WEEKS), so the EGR valve was put on the back burner, and I changed the plugs and wires...curing the problem.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to martx-5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help martx-5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
martx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 11:09 AM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,610
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

To paraphrase from an old Saturday Nite Live skit with 'Rosanne Rosannadanna' (Gilda Radner), "Its always somethin'" or "Never mind!".

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 11:15 AM   #12
Phredawgy
Senior Member
Phredawgy is on a distinguished road
 
Phredawgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southeastern Arizona
Posts: 1,810
 

1996 SL2
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by martx-5 View Post
Thanks for that link. I looked at that item several times and thought that must be it, but for some reason I changed my mind and thought "Nah, that can't be it" And, by this time I had a hard code P0302 misfire (finally after THREE WEEKS), so the EGR valve was put on the back burner, and I changed the plugs and wires...curing the problem.
I had the same problem until I realised the others I had seen looked nothing like the electric one
see the difference
Attached Images
File Type: jpg egrvalveelec.jpg (1.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg vaccumegr.jpg (19.2 KB, 13 views)

...
The streets will flow with the blood of all the non-believers!!!! And all those who won't include their vehicles vital information in their posts!!!!

Last edited by Phredawgy; 04-30-2007 at 11:15 AM.. Reason: stuff

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Phredawgy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Phredawgy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Phredawgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 09:44 PM   #13
Nio
Junior Member
Nio is on a distinguished road
 
Nio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 47

2002 SC1
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Actually, its probably closing and the easiest way to confirm this is to either pull the vacuum line and plug it or disconnect the wire connector temporarily. The idle speed should be normal before and after removing the vacuum line or electrical connector. That's it! No change in idle speed means that the EGR valve is in the closed position during idle.
Ok, just imagine that EGR valve is stuck and you remove electrical connector.
As I understand it is sill stuck and probably No change in idle speed as well???

...
The Struggle for existence is a medicine against The Decline of Nation

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Nio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Nio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Nio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2007, 10:25 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,610
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SL2 - Engine Stumble

It may be a moot point now since you've repaired the problem with just a set of plugs and wires. The EGR, if disconnected, but left bolted in place should not have any effect on the idle speed as it is normally closed preventing exhaust gas from entering the intake manifold. If it were stuck partially open the idle will be rough and may stall the engine.

Last edited by fdryer; 04-30-2007 at 10:32 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saturn SL2 engine stumble applebit S-Series Tech 6 09-23-2012 03:03 AM
94 SL1 Engine stumble on Acceleration HELP lbowtie S-Series Tech 35 06-16-2009 02:04 PM
Engine stumble dixonba Miscellaneous Tech 7 08-13-2004 08:49 PM
stumble as soon as engine turns on sc2dave S-Series Tech 2 11-07-2003 03:35 AM
engine stumble when put in gear? whitesl2 S-Series Tech 4 10-29-2002 12:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:38 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.