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Old 03-23-2019, 11:38 PM   #1
Bismarck318
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Default Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Getting an Oscillating thudding RR, seems to occur on speeds 25-40 or less once it gets going, never hear this on the freeway.... starts with 4 quick clunks several seconds then a couple more, several seconds, repeat. Almost sounds like going over patterned bumps in the road, though I know this is not the case.

I always heard a noise (pop or thud) coming from that right rear like a loose shock, & more pronounced in the kold, but usually was only occasional, & would go away. Had this checked a few years back & nothing could be found.

With the oscillation pattern almost sounds like something could be loose.. I don't see anything?

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Old 03-24-2019, 09:05 AM   #2
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Inspect the arms and links for broken bolt heads, very common on Vues (the bolts on the frame with cam nuts used for camber and toe adjustments).

Look carefully where the trailing arm attaches to the frame..

Heres is a short article with photos :

http://www.1999southwind.com/2003-sa...t-broken-bolt/

..

...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.

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Old 03-24-2019, 02:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

My thoughts when I read your thread on that too, why the oscillation, or much like the cherry bumps on a swing set?

Could be a loose rim but how would that happen & I should be able to see that.

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Old 03-30-2019, 08:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

the best way to get the lowest vehicle operation cost is to buy a new car, and keep it till the wheels fall off

only problem with this approach, eventually the wheels really do fall off

dont mess around with this, dont drive till you find out what has come loose and fix it - 110 people die everyday in vehicle accidents in the US.

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Old 03-30-2019, 08:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Check the tire for a bulge or tread separation.

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Old 03-31-2019, 04:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
the best way to get the lowest vehicle operation cost is to buy a new car, and keep it till the wheels fall off

only problem with this approach, eventually the wheels really do fall off

dont mess around with this, dont drive till you find out what has come loose and fix it - 110 people die everyday in vehicle accidents in the US.
Not that I or a buddy has a lift, let alone a level stable place to put it on stands, but I have been refraining from driving it, & not taking it on the highway. Took it in on Saturday afternoon for a test drive, he told me they could not hear it unless he had the window down (??), & said it sounded like rust in the brake drum (I don't believe it is I hear that horrible crunch every so often) what was strange I had to drive it several miles for around 20 minutes before I heard it, before I took it in & then it was easy to discern unless you were on a washboard road, they assured it was safe to drive. I don't think they heard the same thing on there test drive whether they got it up to speed or out of traffic enough to hear it.

& I'll have to 'baby' it till I can get it back in midweek. Bad thing is it snowed again this past evening & they likely are 'sawting' once again tonight, no precipitation to wash it in the next 7 days... that's what causes this suspension wear, that stuff don't clean off.

Very hollow sounding noise, I find it strange that nothing, but the fact it's oscillating I can almost hum the predictable pattern when driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Check the tire for a bulge or tread separation.
A slipped belt, or bad tire?

Another though that I may had possibly thrown a weight at very low speeds I don't hear this, will appear @ 25-30 & is very pronounced @ 35, goes away at highway speeds.

I always heard a popping noise coming from that area especially in the kold & when the car first started & driven after sitting a while, I used to discount it as frozen shock fluid.

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Old 04-04-2019, 01:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Had it back in today, everything they said ,looked normal & everything tight... get back out after picking it up starts up again after driving it a couple miles.

Found the following threads here (making this a reference notebook fort now)


Googling: saturn vue thudding in rear..

Rear suspension thumping noise

Unresolved on a 2005 Vue in this forum


Rhythmic knocking/thumping sound while in motion

Problem sounds very close to the above link, though on an Ion, this noise kind of sounds like the rhythmic clunking when when waiting for a train passing by.. the clunk may start becoming audible on occasion @ 25 mph but the pattern becomes very discernible about 30-35, & best on a smooth straight road.

Thumping noise in rear drums

From S Series Tech...

None of the above items seem to had been resolved, we can all throw parts & money at it, I had the on & off front shaking around 5 years back at highway speeds, the shop that had ex Saturn mechanics replaced 2 front mounts (bushings) that made the issue slightly better & me $650 poorer, don't ever think that was the resolution, perhaps only part.

Right now I'm just going to baby it perhaps rotate the tires when it gets habitability warmer, the mechanic last Saturday seemed to think it was rust in the drums, which I think not, have that horrible grinding ever so often then goes away, this isn't. Someone mentioned a loose spare, that could sound like the bumping but not explaining the speed variant & rhythm of it.

Very hard to see under there now, lotta rust & white powdery stuff.

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Old 04-08-2019, 02:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Going with the thought it was the drums, this noise does not stop upon light break pedal pressure.

Managed to get some pictures, but really need a wider angle camera to see if anything is discernible....
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

One thing you can do is try using the process of elimination to pinpoint or isolate the problem.

You state it might be a tire problem. An easy way to find out is to simply rotate your tires (back -> front, front to back using the recommended pattern) and see if the noise has moved upfront. If its still coming from the rear, you know it's not the tires. Check to see if your wheels are torqued correctly and that the drum isn't rubbing on the inside of the wheel at speed.

Given the amount of rust I'm seeing underneath, my gut feeling is that you might be looking at a wheel bearing or drum issue, assuming you've never replaced any of these in the past 5 years (if ever).

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Old 04-08-2019, 05:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manospeed View Post
One thing you can do is try using the process of elimination to pinpoint or isolate the problem.

You state it might be a tire problem. An easy way to find out is to simply rotate your tires (back -> front, front to back using the recommended pattern) and see if the noise has moved upfront. If its still coming from the rear, you know it's not the tires. Check to see if your wheels are torqued correctly and that the drum isn't rubbing on the inside of the wheel at speed.

Given the amount of rust I'm seeing underneath, my gut feeling is that you might be looking at a wheel bearing or drum issue, assuming you've never replaced any of these in the past 5 years (if ever).
I had the RR bearing replaced in December which was the 12th bearing service (& 5th for me) on this vehicle, does not sound like the typical whizzing noise unless it's something internal slopping of the bearing... I don't think either of the ones that test drove it were discerning the noise from road noise (our roads are pretty tore up, or they did not drive it long enough for it to start.

I did think drum, as it sounds kind of a "hollow" sound but it is oscillating at frequency around 32 mph Starts just above 25 & becomes quieter around 40 .... .. pattern becomes faster & goes away???

Looking at the frame (pic 246a) the irregular hole is where I pushed my finger through the frame fairly effortlessly (I'd say like peanut brittle but that would be stronger) I think thats a jacking point too. Now reading about the frame rot on here & with my luck & the caustic types of chemistry used on roads here (Morton has local facilities here, I'm sure they do science experiments, not on what is gentler on metals, but what works the fastest).

I'm not sure I'll be able to jack it at any point other than the cross member, we had a warmer day yesterday I was thinking about but rained & got kolder by the time I got to a place with stable level ground. I was thinking a loose rim too, but I should be able to see it (or at least one would think), it is time to rotate the tires anyway I hope none of the lugs are seized (it was sawty when I had the bearing done). Will have to get the Jelly Belly out for that.

There are a couple of what looks like chrome plated lines near than black plastic box underneath that gleam like new amongst the rust .. wondered what they are.

Some of you are so fortunate not to have to deal with this undercarriage cancer, once a vehicle gets into this, it's pretty much doomed 10-15 years down the road. GM wants me to spend $62K on a Tahoe & end up with something like this 13 years later? ... & feel good about my purchase?

There is NOTHING pretty & fun with winter, & snow. It's just plain filthy & sloppy 6-7 months out of the year.. & this is the price.

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Old 04-08-2019, 08:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Bismark, if you cant put a floor jack just about anywhere on the frame of a vue and lift both wheels off the ground without crushing the frame like pretzels, your Vue is dead.

that steel that is crushing in is the same steel that holds the suspension springs, tie rods, trailing arms, shock towers.... If its rusted that bad where you put the jack, its rusted that bad everywhere.

My 2004 got to be the same way this January. I went to jack it up to change the rear wheel bearings, and the frame crushed in at two spots where I tried to raise the back wheels off the ground. I drove it to a scrap yard 4 miles from my house a week later and got $130 for it as scrap metal.

180,000 miles on the odo, original 2.2L 4 with a manual transmission, original clutch... it ran just fine to the scrap yard. I paid about $15,000 for it new in 2004, and I have no complaints.

No one has yet made a car that you can swap the engine and transmission out of every 200,000 miles, and just keep driving it for the rest of your life. Sooner or later a major component fails and its time to get a newer vehicle.

The only exception to this is if you get a basic motorcycle, and never ride it on salty roads, the bike itself can last for many years, because its easy to get after little rust spots here and there, and rebuild the engine after 100,000 miles.

Im not sure if the lines Im seeing in your photos are shadows at the seams, but from the pictures it looks like your Vue is cracking apart at the frame joints.

Do you have a state safety inspection where you live? Here in NY if the mechanic can poke a hole in your frame anywhere, the vehicle fails, and you can not weld rust back together.

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Old 04-09-2019, 03:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

KCW, I always been jacking it with a floor jack on the cross member or behind the wheel (toward the center of the vehicle), & the same place in the front.
I may still be able to lift there but definitely not at the jack points on that U Rail.. Pretzels, a better analogy, thank you.

The metal appears to be delaminating, with the outer layers cracking (probably what you are seeing), which is what concerned me, though I'm not sure if those parts that go rearward to the tire are totally shot (Id have to take a hammer to them) but what runs along the side underneath is. Surprising where the plastic rockers attach still looks somewhat to be holding.

I think you were the one to mention you like to see a car go this way, I have had this since Dec '08, & it had 68K on the odometer, & currently is just under 128K, so do the math how much I drive, any car in my area will crumble like a pretzel before I wear out the Drive train mechanically... then again there is those nasty bearings I keep having to replace. Why I have not & never will purchase a brand new vehicle, at least not in this area.

I'm up in the Northeast corner of Planet Ohth, where if the forecasts just mention snow they are out running around in their trucks with green & yellow lights spreading their merriment like there is no tomorrow. It has in the past snowed just about every day from early December till the lake freezes over to stop the Lake Effect.

This being the Wonderful Honda 6, & the Body Panels are intact & the tires only have about 15K on them, interior in great shape aside of the drivers seat, & inside drivers door panel..

So what only $200 tops for this?

I'm really surprised my mechanic did not notice this, he's had been pretty good at telling me to throw the towel in on a vehicle, I almost left it up there for a front brake job & he did re-secure all the heat shields in place.

I see a lot of folks on here on the rust threads (that don't live in an area that experience such harsh winters with no breaks) saying "Just wash it when it gets salty, no big deal" , by the time I'd get it home from the car wash, it would be loaded up with salt again, so what's the point? Plus try washing your vehicles below freezing (& colder) , locks & mechanisms do freeze. I usually do a good undercarriage spray in the spring, perhaps that festers the salt that gets trapped, & makes it worse.

Unfortunately they do not do state inspections here, but I do live in one of the 7 (of 88) counties where I have to pass an emissions check!

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Old 04-09-2019, 06:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck318 View Post
I had the RR bearing replaced in December which was the 12th bearing service (& 5th for me) on this vehicle, does not sound like the typical whizzing noise unless it's something internal slopping of the bearing... I don't think either of the ones that test drove it were discerning the noise from road noise (our roads are pretty tore up, or they did not drive it long enough for it to start.

I did think drum, as it sounds kind of a "hollow" sound but it is oscillating at frequency around 32 mph Starts just above 25 & becomes quieter around 40 .... .. pattern becomes faster & goes away???

Looking at the frame (pic 246a) the irregular hole is where I pushed my finger through the frame fairly effortlessly (I'd say like peanut brittle but that would be stronger) I think thats a jacking point too. Now reading about the frame rot on here & with my luck & the caustic types of chemistry used on roads here (Morton has local facilities here, I'm sure they do science experiments, not on what is gentler on metals, but what works the fastest).

I'm not sure I'll be able to jack it at any point other than the cross member, we had a warmer day yesterday I was thinking about but rained & got kolder by the time I got to a place with stable level ground. I was thinking a loose rim too, but I should be able to see it (or at least one would think), it is time to rotate the tires anyway I hope none of the lugs are seized (it was sawty when I had the bearing done). Will have to get the Jelly Belly out for that.

There are a couple of what looks like chrome plated lines near than black plastic box underneath that gleam like new amongst the rust .. wondered what they are.

Some of you are so fortunate not to have to deal with this undercarriage cancer, once a vehicle gets into this, it's pretty much doomed 10-15 years down the road. GM wants me to spend $62K on a Tahoe & end up with something like this 13 years later? ... & feel good about my purchase?

There is NOTHING pretty & fun with winter, & snow. It's just plain filthy & sloppy 6-7 months out of the year.. & this is the price.

That was the death of my VUE. Living in Northeast PA with the salt and brine for the winter roads rotted the underside. Fuel line started leaking and brake lines did not look good, decided it was time and scrapped it. I got 16 years out of it and for this area, that is good.

Last year I bought a Tahoe because I do have towing needs. On the lot were all the higher end models (LT and LTX) but I had the dealer locate me a base model (LS) and came in at $53,000 out the door price, far cheaper then the $65,000 sticker price on the ones in the lot.
Mike

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Old 04-09-2019, 12:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

I'm in the same position as the others in terms of rust (live in Midwest). Doing any kind of work underneath is a real pain in the ass because every bolt, screw, nut is covered in rust or seized up requiring impact wrenches, blow torches, and gallons of WD-40.

I'm at 140,000 miles for a 2007, although I can't say the rust I'm seeing under the vehicle is as bad as some of the photos I've seen here. I do have rust developing on the frame, but not to the point where its brittle or bends and its still relatively localized (front/rear). I'm hoping to hit 200,000 miles (3-4 years) before I call it quits on the Vue at which point I'm going to replace it with perhaps a Mazda MX-3, Toyota Rav4 or something along those lines.

With that said, I'm curious which one of us will have the last Saturn Vue running. Whoever it is, just make sure you turn off the lights in this place before taking off.

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Old 04-12-2019, 10:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Bismark, Ive had the experience of scrapping out 2 vehicles in the last several months.

I had a 2000 Corolla that a friend gave me. I was a great little car, but for a few years there they put soft rings in the engines. After about 70k miles it would start burning oil. I had about 150k miles on the odo, my son was using it for commuting, and it was burning a quart of oil every 500 miles. It was hard to keep up with it, and one day the oil light came on while he was half way to work, and it was 5F out... He did not have another bottle in the car, thought he could make it 5 miles to the next gas station - ate the bearings - engine was shot and knocking by the time he got there.

There is a scrap metal yard only 4 miles from my house. I dont know where the nearest "junk / wrecking" yard is. I tried calling the places that will come pick up your car and give you $250 for it, but none of them wanted a 19 year old corolla with a blown engine, or a rusted out 15 year old Vue. There are just too many of them around, esp the ones with the CV transmission that no one wants to repair anymore.

the scrap metal yard buys vehicles by the pound. I dont know if they try to strip them for parts, and then drain the fluids and crush them, or if they just crush them for the alum and steel. I got $120 for the corolla, and about $140 for the Vue.

Im not sure if I can complain about the rust. When I started driving in 1975 in Buffalo, cars that were only 6 or 7 years old would already have surface rust on the body panels and bumpers. Back then they did not even paint the inside of fenders or doors. If you wanted to weather proof your new car you took it to Zebart, and they sprayed at psuedo asphalt/tar stuff everywhere that was not painted at the factory.

Car manufacturers have since gotten better, steel parts are painted on both sides, the bottoms of frames and brake lines are painted, so I cant complain that a car I bought new rusted out to failure 15 to 20 years later. When I started driving it was bondo and fiberglass and rustolium paint jobs after only 7 or 8 years, and the car would still rust thru the floor in ten years.

I guess a new car could still be blasted underneigth with more paint when you buy it, that might get you a few more years.

My sons 2000 Saturn SL is now sitting in the driveway with no plates. The frame on that is also rusted to failure. He got a used Chevy Volt a few weeks ago for $10k. Now I just have to get him to drag his last saturn to the scrap yard... maybe tomorrow (saturday) and get it out of my driveway.

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Old 04-14-2019, 05:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

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the scrap metal yard buys vehicles by the pound. I dont know if they try to strip them for parts, and then drain the fluids and crush them, or if they just crush them for the alum and steel. I got $120 for the corolla, and about $140 for the Vue.

Im not sure if I can complain about the rust. When I started driving in 1975 in Buffalo, cars that were only 6 or 7 years old would already have surface rust on the body panels and bumpers. Back then they did not even paint the inside of fenders or doors. If you wanted to weather proof your new car you took it to Zebart, and they sprayed at psuedo asphalt/tar stuff everywhere that was not painted at the factory.

Car manufacturers have since gotten better, steel parts are painted on both sides, the bottoms of frames and brake lines are painted, so I cant complain that a car I bought new rusted out to failure 15 to 20 years later. When I
started driving it was bondo and fiberglass and rustolium paint jobs after only 7 or 8 years, and the car would still rust thru the floor in ten years.

I guess a new car could still be blasted underneigth with more paint when you buy it, that might get you a few more years.
Had visible scale on the Vue when I bought it @ just over 3 years old & the infamous gate rust around the chrome handle. Car was registered in Geauga County on the great white Planet Ohth, should have been a red flag, but @ just over $9K I couldn't complain, the local Saturn dealer was selling a '04 CVT for $11K a couple months earlier with the same mileage.

True, they have improved the corrosion & for as thin as they make them, I stopped doing body work on them the thinner the metal got.

Anything driven in this area is doomed once the chemical is on it, I told my brother to have his new Highlander thoroughly power washed, upon his return home & encouraged him to rent a car (which he didn't). His old car was delivered here, in December just sitting in the driveway the few months the shiny license plate screws that were 4 years old have developed a crust on them from the airborne chemicals. I'm driving that sparingly when the salt is not present, figure give it a year reprieve. I was going to retire the Vue to hauling status, & use in heavier snow with the greater ground clearance.

My dilemma now, I sell it for $140, & the boneyard makes $3K from the parts, yes, makes sense to me. Its just been too kold to poke around to find out what the noise is, with when I actually have the time, like to return it up to my mechanic to look at the frame, I'm surprised he missed that.

I thought the V6 was worth something... (worth more out of the car) guess not.

Sawt man wins another, I'd just assume junking it for a blown engine.

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Old 04-18-2019, 01:16 PM   #17
Bismarck318
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2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Leaving the vehicle sit for several days & taking it on a short drive, the noise seems to go away for a while longer, like something re-seizes itself up again with rust.

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Old 04-19-2019, 08:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Im not sure what you think a junk yard could take off your 13 year old Vue and sell for $3000?

Unless your engine and transmission have very low miles on them, most of the old Vues around here are just rusting away, I cant imagine anyone that has a rusty old Vue with a blown engine, and paying $3k to put a used engine or transmission in it

I cant imagine anyone in Arizona wants a drive train from the great white north, and paying to have it shipped 1500 miles south.

My 2005 Vue had 180k miles on it when I scrapped it. A few years ago the manual transmission was getting hard to shift, it would jump out of gear sometimes. I played around with lubing the shifter cables, and thought maybe it was low on transmission fluid. I could not get the side allen head plug out of the transmission, so I pulled the plug out of the bottom and drained all the fluid out.

There was not much ATF in there... I got a measuring cup: 4 OUNCES of transmission fluid came out. There is suppose to be 2 quarts (64 ounces).

I have no idea where the other 60 ounces went. I never had puddles under the Vue, never had a wet frame around the engine or transmission, never had a problem with the clutch. I dont know how it kept working at all with only 4 ounce of fluid in the transmission!

I filled it up, nothing leaked out, drove it to work everyday, nothing leaked out. A month later I drained it out and it looked muddy. Put two new quarts of AFT, and after a few weeks it shifted fine, never had any problems with the transmission after that. The differential had a whine to it, but I could hardly hear it over the wheel bearings that kept failing in sequence.

Could a junk yard take out the ECM or body control module and sell them for a few hundred bucks? maybe... but like I said, there are so many early Vues rusting out here that the places that say they will pick up your old car and give you $200 to $300 for it, even they were not interested. I had to tow it away to a metal scrap yard myself.

No one wanted it.

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Old 04-22-2019, 12:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
Im not sure what you think a junk yard could take off your 13 year old Vue and sell for $3000?
.
Eventually in parts they probably could make that sort of return. What did someone just pay for the front clip on here after they hit a deer? I haven't been in a pull apart recently, but just getting a replacement spare & Jack in a vehicle from a yard is going to cost me well over $100. I don't get it either, but it is what it is.

Fenders & other 'tupperware' shouldn't matter where they end up, north or south. As far as the drive train they ship donor parts anywhere.

I bought the less than perfect Rims with Tires on the Craigslist for $220 after after 15K they were shot with dryrot, probably got taken on that, my current tires are in way better shape.

I drive around 5-6K yearly... 128K, with the 'great' Honda Engine sounds like low mileage from what I read here.

The engine should to be blown if I 'give' it to the scrap yard for $150.

I've never had a vehicle die of "Mechanical Failure" here, the salt man gets em first. Speaking of which, my Dad's 300LW had the brake lines replaced in it last week, it's been on the Planet Ohth for 12 years. Supposedly they don't use standard steel brake-lines, they have replacements with a higher nickle content. They rot at the clip points where the salt collects & can't be easily removed, so much for safety when you have catastrophic failures.

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Old 09-11-2019, 01:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Oscillating thudding Right Rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
Im not sure what you think a junk yard could take off your 13 year old Vue and sell for $3000?

Could a junk yard take out the ECM or body control module and sell them for a few hundred bucks? maybe... but like I said, there are so many early Vues rusting out here that the places that say they will pick up your old car and give you $200 to $300 for it, even they were not interested. I had to tow it away to a metal scrap yard myself.

No one wanted it.
Probably correct, looked at a '05 Colorado as a replacement 120K @ $2499, Dealer disclosed Rust Frame damage. You can sell any vehicle here no state inspection. Dealer said Tut Tut, only 120K & no outer body rust, the truck was sold a few days later.

I see what you get here for $6000, a 10 year old + vehicle with over 100K & likely cancer.

I occasionally have to used the Vue, the noise sounds like rhythmical thudding starting around 30 mph, much like listening to the thudding of a passing train. No longer taking it on the highway not knowing what it is.

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