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Old 07-01-2009, 09:33 AM   #1
XRLad
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Default Here i go with the rant.

At the risk of becoming public enemy # 1 i got to say why is it that the Astra seems to be labeled "slow" Yet other cars of VERY similar performance in the 0 to 60 times are called "peppy" or "adequate" and " respectable"
Civic LX ,1.8-liter four-cylinder engine, which makes 140 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque runs around 9.4 seconds and is always labeled in the reviews i read "adequate" .How about the 2008 Mazda 3 Grand Touring
It is making 156 HP and runs zero to sixty in 8.5 .How about the 2008 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Premium ,makes 170 hp and manages a 9.5 zero to sixty.So i being one to compare apples to apples I see the Astra times being right in line with the other cars in its class.Yes your right our Astras 16.6 quarter and 8.6 sixty times are not "super performance" but compared to the normal car it is not what one would call slow.I read about other cars in the same performance band and it totally erks me when i see words like"peppy" or " adequate" and then i read the Astra and see it being labeled as sluggish or slow.Sorry but i have driven a 2001 corvette, i have a 300hp turbo car,plus driven a lot of other cars and i don't find my Astra frustrating .It does the job well enough.I have passed with it and believe me i have also driven it a few times like there was no tomorrow and i have no complaints about its performance.I like many other gear heads would gladly like more HP but for a daily driver it performs without fuss and lag for me.To me it seems like it is unfairly judged.You cant deny that the numbers for a lot of other cars with the same HP give or take, is performing the same or in some cases worse or a bit better, not blowing the Astra away .To me the Astra is a respectable performer for its 138 hp.Thats my rant.

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Old 07-01-2009, 09:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

I'm with you.

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Old 07-01-2009, 10:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRLad View Post
At the risk of becoming public enemy # 1 i got to say why is it that the Astra seems to be labeled "slow" Yet other cars of VERY similar performance in the 0 to 60 times are called "peppy" or "adequate" and " respectable"
Civic LX ,1.8-liter four-cylinder engine, which makes 140 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque runs around 9.4 seconds and is always labeled in the reviews i read "adequate" .How about the 2008 Mazda 3 Grand Touring
It is making 156 HP and runs zero to sixty in 8.5 .How about the 2008 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Premium ,makes 170 hp and manages a 9.5 zero to sixty.So i being one to compare apples to apples I see the Astra times being right in line with the other cars in its class.Yes your right our Astras 16.6 quarter and 8.6 sixty times are not "super performance" but compared to the normal car it is not what one would call slow.I read about other cars in the same performance band and it totally erks me when i see words like"peppy" or " adequate" and then i read the Astra and see it being labeled as sluggish or slow.Sorry but i have driven a 2001 corvette, i have a 300hp turbo car,plus driven a lot of other cars and i don't find my Astra frustrating .It does the job well enough.I have passed with it and believe me i have also driven it a few times like there was no tomorrow and i have no complaints about its performance.I like many other gear heads would gladly like more HP but for a daily driver it performs without fuss and lag for me.To me it seems like it is unfairly judged.You cant deny that the numbers for a lot of other cars with the same HP give or take, is performing the same or in some cases worse or a bit better, not blowing the Astra away .To me the Astra is a respectable performer for its 138 hp.Thats my rant.
I really feel some people are hard on this car because it's a GM car trying to play in the Japanese compact sand box. I've seen the same reviewers bash this car for certain features and then write the same thing off as "not a big" deal on it's competition. I've stopped reading reviews and stopped worrying about what others think...I love my car and have not major complaints that i haven't already addressed or will be addressing in the future.

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Old 07-01-2009, 10:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

The looks and MRSP of the car suggest more hp is available. If it looked like an economy car and the MSRP reflected what they actually sell for I think the reviewers might be less harsh.

But you made an excellent point.

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Old 07-01-2009, 10:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
The looks and MRSP of the car suggest more hp is available. If it looked like an economy car and the MSRP reflected what they actually sell for I think the reviewers might be less harsh.

But you made an excellent point.
The MSRP is a bit high I will say....but i don't believe the "look" is a factor..Considering the mazda 3 looks like pretty sporty vehicle and has similar power numbers and handling that is slightly less impressive than the Astra, but still gets it's performance rated as adequte. I'm more likely to believe that for the price reviewers think there should be more umph.

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Old 07-01-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

I feel like if you drive the Astra hard it seems "peppy" but if you drive it conservatively it seems sluggish. It seems that you have the press the gas pedal down to hard to make it go fast.

The Astra is kind of like a horse I had way back when named Pokey. You had to kick him real hard multiple times to get him going, but when he got going he could keep up with the other horses.

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Old 07-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

two factors at play. MSRP is that of more powerful cars, and we got only one motor.

the MSRP issue is not GMs fault - cant control the exchange rate. but it did come in at a few grand more than the noted competition, so dollar for dollar it was a little slow.

then there is the motor. since the car was available in europe for a number of years, and there are a plethora of choices in powerplant, the enthusiast magazines commented that the powerplant is not as capable as the suspension. I agree with that.

however, i didnt buy it for the HP. i too owned 300+ hp cars, 300hp 951s, etc. and when i want power i drive the M3, when i want economy i drive the astra. remember because of altitude i am losing about 25% of my HP, and yesterday at 9500' i lost almost 40% of my HP. thats why my wife drives a twin turbo.

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Old 07-01-2009, 12:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblarsen View Post
I feel like if you drive the Astra hard it seems "peppy" but if you drive it conservatively it seems sluggish. It seems that you have the press the gas pedal down to hard to make it go fast.

The Astra is kind of like a horse I had way back when named Pokey. You had to kick him real hard multiple times to get him going, but when he got going he could keep up with the other horses.
haha now theres an analogy I didnt expect to read It is sorta true tho

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Old 07-01-2009, 04:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

If you derestrict the airbox and run a little PVC piping to it the motor feels noticably more peppy.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=137459&page=2

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Old 07-01-2009, 04:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

+1 XRLAD, very true. Also let me add that at around 3,000 lbs the Astra is pretty much the heaviest in it's class, which is better for obvious safety reasons, but has it's toll on 0-60 performance. Even with my automatic, at 30mph and up the VVT does it's job quite well.

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Old 07-01-2009, 06:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
+1 XRLAD, very true. Also let me add that at around 3,000 lbs the Astra is pretty much the heaviest in it's class, which is better for obvious safety reasons, but has it's toll on 0-60 performance. Even with my automatic, at 30mph and up the VVT does it's job quite well.
i dont understand the obvious safety reasons. with CAD programs designing the crumple zones, and all kinds of fancy metals making the crumple zone and safety cage, and airbages galore, the correlation between weight and overall safety is no longer lineal like it once was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblarsen View Post
The Astra is kind of like a horse I had way back when named Pokey. You had to kick him real hard multiple times to get him going, but when he got going he could keep up with the other horses.
Im gonna ask the mods to change your screen name to Gumby!

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Old 07-01-2009, 08:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRLad View Post
At the risk of becoming public enemy # 1 i got to say why is it that the Astra seems to be labeled "slow" Yet other cars of VERY similar performance in the 0 to 60 times are called "peppy" or "adequate" and " respectable"
Civic LX ,1.8-liter four-cylinder engine, which makes 140 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque runs around 9.4 seconds and is always labeled in the reviews i read "adequate" .How about the 2008 Mazda 3 Grand Touring
It is making 156 HP and runs zero to sixty in 8.5 .How about the 2008 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Premium ,makes 170 hp and manages a 9.5 zero to sixty.So i being one to compare apples to apples I see the Astra times being right in line with the other cars in its class.Yes your right our Astras 16.6 quarter and 8.6 sixty times are not "super performance" but compared to the normal car it is not what one would call slow.I read about other cars in the same performance band and it totally erks me when i see words like"peppy" or " adequate" and then i read the Astra and see it being labeled as sluggish or slow.Sorry but i have driven a 2001 corvette, i have a 300hp turbo car,plus driven a lot of other cars and i don't find my Astra frustrating .It does the job well enough.I have passed with it and believe me i have also driven it a few times like there was no tomorrow and i have no complaints about its performance.I like many other gear heads would gladly like more HP but for a daily driver it performs without fuss and lag for me.To me it seems like it is unfairly judged.You cant deny that the numbers for a lot of other cars with the same HP give or take, is performing the same or in some cases worse or a bit better, not blowing the Astra away .To me the Astra is a respectable performer for its 138 hp.Thats my rant.

Real world ......... Firebird Int Raceway 6 passes ASTRA 5sp best run 17.6

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Old 07-01-2009, 10:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S2 View Post
i dont understand the obvious safety reasons. with CAD programs designing the crumple zones, and all kinds of fancy metals making the crumple zone and safety cage, and airbages galore, the correlation between weight and overall safety is no longer lineal like it once was.
I believe you meant "linear"?

Mass does have an effect with regards to "vehicle safety". It has to do with inertia and concervation of momentum. If a 4,500 lb Mercedes travelling at 30 mph hits a 3,000 lb Astra head-on going the same speed, the Astra will rebound backwards while the Mercedes might still be carrying some forward momentum. To an occupant inside the Astra, they not only have to decelerate from 30 mph to zero, but then accelerate backwards as well. The extra mass of the Mercedes will dampen the enegry of the impact before transferring it to the occupants, spreading it out over a longer time.

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Old 07-01-2009, 10:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

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I believe you meant "linear"?

Mass does have an effect with regards to "vehicle safety". It has to do with inertia and concervation of momentum. If a 4,500 lb Mercedes travelling at 30 mph hits a 3,000 lb Astra head-on going the same speed, the Astra will rebound backwards while the Mercedes might still be carrying some forward momentum. To an occupant inside the Astra, they not only have to decelerate from 30 mph to zero, but then accelerate backwards as well. The extra mass of the Mercedes will dampen the enegry of the impact before transferring it to the occupants, spreading it out over a longer time.
yep, meant linear.

i agree with you, however, a 10% difference in weight between the lightest and heaviest of the cars the OP listed may or may not affect the occupant protection.

all cars meet minimum crash protection standards. is there a difference between a 3,000 lb astra and say a 2,700lb mercedes, saab or BMW? I say heck yeah, and i would much rather be in the 2,700 lb mb, saab, or bmw over the 3,000 lb astra. do you agree?

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Old 07-01-2009, 11:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

May be becuase it is True ?

I am going to use one publication for all the numbers, Consumer Reports. all are automatic models. mpg is tested MPG.

0-60
Astra - 11 sec, 25MPG
Prius (last gen) - 10.5 sec, 44MPG
Matrix/Vibe 2.4 - 8.3 sec, 27MPG
Matrix/Vibe 1.8 - 10.1 sec, 29MPG
Mazda 3 (last gen) - 9.6 sec, 27MPG
Corolla - 9.9 sec, 32MPG
Civic - 10.1 sec, 28MPG
Focus - 10.1 sec, 26MPG.
Sentra - 9.6 sec, 26MPG
Fit Base - 10.7 sec, 30MPG
Versa - 10.1 sec, 28MPG
Yaris - 10.9 sec, 30MPG
Hyundai Elantra - 10.4 sec, 27MPG

so come again, Astra is fast and frugal ? its MSRP is higher than every cars listed (except hybrid), slower 0-60, and lower MPG. It is SLOWER than a 2nd gen Prius (3rd gen Prius is faster still with better MPG). note this is automatic model only, as CR did not test a manual version.

yes it handles better than most and better interior quality. I bought it because of that (and huge discount off MSRP). but I don't dilusion myself.

Last edited by bellwilliam; 07-01-2009 at 11:39 PM..

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Old 07-02-2009, 03:15 AM   #16
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnSdn View Post
Real world ......... Firebird Int Raceway 6 passes ASTRA 5sp best run 17.6
Really,strange...what was the trap speed ??

No offense bellwilliam but i don't have any faith in Consumers report at all when it comes to testing cars,almost every time i find they cant drive worth you know what as they always seem to be way off the times.Good example the focus every where i read ,say road and track and other ,runs a 9.5 0 to 60 not 10.1.My personal opinion but as i say they are not my choice for reliable numbers.People who test toasters and all else are not true car enthusiasts like road and track, motor trend and other in my book.

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Old 07-02-2009, 08:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
May be becuase it is True ?

I am going to use one publication for all the numbers, Consumer Reports. all are automatic models. mpg is tested MPG.

0-60
Astra - 11 sec, 25MPG
Prius (last gen) - 10.5 sec, 44MPG
Matrix/Vibe 2.4 - 8.3 sec, 27MPG
Matrix/Vibe 1.8 - 10.1 sec, 29MPG
Mazda 3 (last gen) - 9.6 sec, 27MPG
Corolla - 9.9 sec, 32MPG
Civic - 10.1 sec, 28MPG
Focus - 10.1 sec, 26MPG.
Sentra - 9.6 sec, 26MPG
Fit Base - 10.7 sec, 30MPG
Versa - 10.1 sec, 28MPG
Yaris - 10.9 sec, 30MPG
Hyundai Elantra - 10.4 sec, 27MPG

so come again, Astra is fast and frugal ? its MSRP is higher than every cars listed (except hybrid), slower 0-60, and lower MPG. It is SLOWER than a 2nd gen Prius (3rd gen Prius is faster still with better MPG). note this is automatic model only, as CR did not test a manual version.

yes it handles better than most and better interior quality. I bought it because of that (and huge discount off MSRP). but I don't dilusion myself.
Jeez, did CR leave the parking brake on when they tested it? Or is the auto just that much slower?

Maybe they were running the A/C

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Old 07-02-2009, 10:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRLad View Post
Really,strange...what was the trap speed ??

No offense bellwilliam but i don't have any faith in Consumers report at all when it comes to testing cars,almost every time i find they cant drive worth you know what as they always seem to be way off the times.Good example the focus every where i read ,say road and track and other ,runs a 9.5 0 to 60 not 10.1.My personal opinion but as i say they are not my choice for reliable numbers.People who test toasters and all else are not true car enthusiasts like road and track, motor trend and other in my book.
read the differences in the way they are tested. i think R&T does burnouts and takex X amount of runs and then posts the single best run. in reality the average person will not be able to duplicate a R&T time on the street. I think CR takes a more normal time.

then there is the gearing. while they all used R&T may manually shift while CR lets the transmission do it itself. again the CR time is more in line with reality.

Then there is the gearing again. i read in an english magazine some years ago about how they test cars. they do the 0-100 which is 0-62mph. one car was in the lead until it had to upsift at about 58mph. that car was clearly faster than the other car that could go to 63 or 64 before shifting. so in the real world to say 65 mph which is highway speed, the slower car was actually faster. and in the real world, the slower car was faster.

but the fine line between reality and bench racing is often blurred on the web.

the fact that the astra gets so buzzy after a certain RPM that i chose not to push the car, not worth the noise. the competition may or may not get so buzzy. if the competition is faster but buzzier, i think in reality the astra would be quicker. if the competition has a slower motor, but is not as buzzy, and feels better being reveed, in reality it would be a faster car.

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Old 07-02-2009, 10:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRLad View Post
Really,strange...what was the trap speed ??

No offense bellwilliam but i don't have any faith in Consumers report at all when it comes to testing cars,almost every time i find they cant drive worth you know what as they always seem to be way off the times.Good example the focus every where i read ,say road and track and other ,runs a 9.5 0 to 60 not 10.1.My personal opinion but as i say they are not my choice for reliable numbers.People who test toasters and all else are not true car enthusiasts like road and track, motor trend and other in my book.
All runs were between .... 80.5-81.5 mph

I posted the runs in the ASTRA forum months ago when a bunch of us were out at the track with a number of SATURNs.

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Old 07-02-2009, 11:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Here i go with the rant.

Even though I love the ride of my Astra, I have to say its performance is one of my biggest issues. I really wish I had went with a 5 speed as the automagic in this car is horrible. My last commuter car was a 1.9 TDI VW and I have to say that car felt like it pulled stronger stock ( granted it had 90hp stock and 155ft/lb's) Sometimes I feel like my foot is going to go through the floorboard when I am merging out in traffic.

Id also like to see time slips for any 1/4 mile runs under 17 seconds as id find it hard to believe to be honest.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

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