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Old 08-13-2010, 07:23 PM   #1
Gheuett
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Default 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends..

Hi All,

I'm now working on part two of my 100K maintenance though it is a bit late (141K)! A few weeks back we did the plugs and thermostat etc thanks to a lot of help from many of you on this forum. Now I am working on the water pump timing belt portion.

I have worked my way down to the adjusting the crankshaft to 60 degrees BTDC. I think I have it pretty straight on the mark.

My question has to do with the alignment marks on the cams. I have posted pictures so hopefully you can see.

1 is the Crankshaft lined up
2 & 3 are the cams on the front side of the vehicle
4 & 5 are the cams on the back side.

The marks on the front cams seem to be a tooth back of the marking notch. The marks on the back cams seem to line up pretty well with the marking notches. From what you can see is that normal and am I at the point where I can lock them down and begin taking the belt off?

By the way - the belt is not too horrible a shape for 141K miles. The serpentine belt was in really amazing shape. It has had a lot of highway miles so I'm assuming that helped.

I can shoot additional pictures if these don't provide enough detail.

Thanks!!
Gib
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Crankshaft.jpg (194.4 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg Front Cams - 1.jpg (61.4 KB, 211 views)
File Type: jpg Front Cams 2.jpg (66.0 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg Back Cams 1.jpg (59.4 KB, 186 views)
File Type: jpg Back Cams 2.jpg (65.4 KB, 168 views)

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Old 08-14-2010, 12:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
My question has to do with the alignment marks on the cams. I have posted pictures so hopefully you can see.

1 is the Crankshaft lined up
2 & 3 are the cams on the front side of the vehicle
4 & 5 are the cams on the back side.

The marks on the front cams seem to be a tooth back of the marking notch. The marks on the back cams seem to line up pretty well with the marking notches. From what you can see is that normal and am I at the point where I can lock them down and begin taking the belt off?
Looks close enough to me. Get some white-out or something and mark the old belt where it matches the marks on all the sprockets and after you remove the old belt, see how those marks compare to the marks on the new belt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
By the way - the belt is not too horrible a shape for 141K miles.
Mine still looked new at 93K. I bet they can go 150k no problem - but who wants to take a chance?

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Old 08-14-2010, 01:12 AM   #3
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

thier is a tool set to hold the cams from turning when the belt is removed. aftermarket belts still have alignment marks on then. the tensioner pulley fail, it should be replaced. also mark the 2 idle pulley tension location.

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Old 08-14-2010, 01:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by bern View Post
thier is a tool set to hold the cams from turning when the belt is removed.
Cam Lock J-Tool
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File Type: jpg Cam Lock.JPG (40.6 KB, 143 views)

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Old 08-14-2010, 09:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Gheuett,

Your marks are lined up exactly like mine where on my 2000 LS2 before pulling the belt off. I most definitely agree with Chazberry on using a white paint pen to mark the heck out of your old timing belt before removing it. It helps with the confidence factor when putting the new one on.

Chazberry,

I love your cam lock tool and will use it on my 03 Vue timing belt job next month. I used the zip tie method on my LS2 and had some minor movement of the no. 4 camshaft when the old belt came off.

ernesto

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Old 08-14-2010, 10:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
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Chazberry,

I love your cam lock tool and will use it on my 03 Vue timing belt job next month. I used the zip tie method on my LS2 and had some minor movement of the no. 4 camshaft when the old belt came off.
Thanks Ernesto - necessity is the mother of invention!
Later for all those over-priced J-tools!

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Old 08-14-2010, 02:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Thanks Everyone!

Glad to know I've got it in the right place. I'm definitely going with Chaz's bolt method. That seems like the safest way to protect the cams but put plenty of pressure on them. The new belt has good markings so I'll do the white out thing and compare.

I did get the kit with the replacement pulleys. By the way - for future reference, everyone on-line (RockAuto et al) was out of the belt kit and they had long waits on getting it. NAPA had it here but they wanted $309. The cheapest price on the internet was $185. They matched it when I brought in a printout from that site.

I was shocked.

Before I go further with the removal of the belt, I'm going to slap on the new water pump.

Appreciate everyone's help!!
Gib

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Old 08-14-2010, 11:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
By the way - for future reference, everyone on-line (RockAuto et al) was out of the belt kit and they had long waits on getting it. NAPA had it here but they wanted $309. The cheapest price on the internet was $185. They matched it when I brought in a printout from that site.
I guess a lot of L81s coming up on 100k at the same time! I couldn't believe it when you said 6 wks delivery! Kudos to NAPA! They must make some profit at $309 if they were willing to discount it that much!

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

In addition, Napa was the the only local shop that could find me the E-20 Torx socket that worked great on the crankshaft. I checked a lot of places including the hardware stores that usually had the odd tools.

They definitely won me over for sure.

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Old 08-15-2010, 02:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
In addition, Napa was the the only local shop that could find me the E-20 Torx socket that worked great on the crankshaft.
Too bad - I could have told you some standard socket fit on there well-enough.

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Old 08-15-2010, 03:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

I remember seeing some alternatives but one person mentioned almost stripping the bolt so I figured I'd be safe and go with a Torx socket.

Thanks though!
Gib

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Old 08-16-2010, 04:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

OK - back to the drawing board.

Got the old belt off, matched up the white out lines with the new belt and installed it with the lines matching the old. On the new belt, yellow lines matched on cam 1/2 and single white lines matched on 3/4. Double yellow lines on the bottom of the loop lined up with the crankshaft marks at 60 Deg BTDC.

I installed the new tensioner unit and using an allen wrench to move the tensioner and a 13 mm wrench to tighten the bolt, adjusted to the 1/8" mark they recommended. I tightened the pulley bolt to 15 ft lbs per the instructions.

It went awry on the crankshaft test. as I cranked, the tensioner pulley seemed to be slipping and did not appear to hold it's setting at all. Needless to say, when I got back around to my marks lining up on the cams, the belt marks were 5 notches ahead of where they were supposed to be. What concerns me is even with additional tightening along the way, it wasn't holding at all. The new tensioner unit was all assembled and is just bolt on so I don't think there is anything else to do to it.

I know I will have to pull the belt off and start over but I want to make sure I correct my error before doing all that again.

Appreciate any ideas.
Thanks!
Gib

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Old 08-16-2010, 08:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
It went awry on the crankshaft test. as I cranked, the tensioner pulley seemed to be slipping and did not appear to hold it's setting at all. Needless to say, when I got back around to my marks lining up on the cams, the belt marks were 5 notches ahead of where they were supposed to be. What concerns me is even with additional tightening along the way, it wasn't holding at all. The new tensioner unit was all assembled and is just bolt on so I don't think there is anything else to do to it.
Gib - the marks on the TB are not going to stay with the marks on the sprockets. But after spinning the crank 720 degrees, the marks on the sprockets should be back in line with the cover notches. The tensioner setting dances all around as the crank turns because the cams will exert varying amounts of tension on the belt (I hope this is what you mean by "slipping"). The instructions I found said, "after making the initial tensioner adjustment, turn the crank 1-3/4 and re-adjust" and then you're good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
I know I will have to pull the belt off and start over but I want to make sure I correct my error before doing all that again.
I don't think this will be necessary if previous makes sense to you.

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Old 08-16-2010, 09:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

IS there a How-to around here with instructions and pics on this? It's amazing how similar the Vue sounds to my 300M TB/WP service

...
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
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IS there a How-to around here with instructions and pics on this? It's amazing how similar the Vue sounds to my 300M TB/WP service
There's a great collection of good pics, unfortunately they're spread over a vast assortment of separate threads (e.g. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=157341). There's instructions for the L300 Timing Belt in the How-to Library (same L81), but I didn't any pics. Hopefully, someone, someday will compile all the best pics and assemble them into a first class step-by-step for the Library.

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Old 08-17-2010, 08:35 AM   #16
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Agree - there are great pieces of info scattered about. I found it useful to create a word document and copy and paste info together. Though it is scattered info, it is at least in one document. I would be happy to e-mail it to anyone if you like. It's just a bunch of different posts pulled together but it might be useful.

Chaz, you explained it perfectly. I think I had the image of the tensioner functioning much like an idler pulley on a serpentine belt. Once you set those, they are more static and don't have the kind of movement that I was seeing as I turned the crankshaft. When I turned the crankshaft to 60 deg. BTDC the cam marks did line up with the notches. The marks on the belt spooked me.

By the way - in your honor, I believe on this forum we should hereby refer to your cam locking system as "Chazlocs." Those bolts worked great and the cams didn't move a bit.

Many thanks again!!
Gib

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Old 08-17-2010, 09:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

In the interest of pure laziness, what is the size of the nut and bolt set that you guys used?

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Old 08-17-2010, 09:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheuett View Post
By the way - in your honor, I believe on this forum we should hereby refer to your cam locking system as "Chazlocs." Those bolts worked great and the cams didn't move a bit.
Glad to hear your concerns are eased. And thanks for that nomination - I'm very honored!

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Old 08-17-2010, 09:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
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In the interest of pure laziness, what is the size of the nut and bolt set that you guys used?
5/16 seemed to be good - probably not critical though.

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2003 Vue Timing Belt Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazberry View Post
There's a great collection of good pics, unfortunately they're spread over a vast assortment of separate threads (e.g. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=157341). There's instructions for the L300 Timing Belt in the How-to Library (same L81), but I didn't any pics. Hopefully, someone, someday will compile all the best pics and assemble them into a first class step-by-step for the Library.

I belong to a 300M Forum and there as well as a few other Forums I belong to have a How-To topic where members post detailed how-tos on some of the most basic and critical maintenance. When I first joined this site I *thought* the Vue Tech Topic would be this......maybe this is something that could be added here?

...
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2002 Chrysler 300M Special 115,000 miles
1978 Dodge Li'l Red Express 78,000 miles
1997 Dodge Neon 2dr Sport 130,000 miles

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