SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2010, 08:54 AM   #1
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default 97 sl2 just died

my fiance was driving about 30 and her car's engine just cut off. All the accessories and lights were still on. The battery and alternator are fine and she had enough gas. When we tried to start it up it just cranks and cranks forever. The check engine light has been on for about a year all it says is cylinder 1 random misfire. Ive changed the plugs countless times, and ign coil. Before this happened when you press the gas lightly the whole car shakes but when you floor the gas its smooth. And at idle it shakes too but not as bad. Please help it wont start for nothing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 02-03-2010, 09:56 AM   #2
hoseppi
Advanced Member
hoseppi will become famous soon enough
 
hoseppi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bowie, Md.
Posts: 608

2002 SL1
2008 Astra XE
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

First guess would be the CPS- if its not getting any spark. If it's not getting any fuel it would probably be the fuel pump. We really need more symptoms. Are you getting any spark? Usually you can hear the fuel pump-do you?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to hoseppi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help hoseppi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
hoseppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 11:49 AM   #3
bumpdraft
Master Member
bumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nice
 
bumpdraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,087
 

1998 SC2
1998 SW2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Guess:
Are the plug wires routed correctly?
My dad had symptoms very similar and it was the ignition cables (plug wires).

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to bumpdraft's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help bumpdraft reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
bumpdraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 11:53 AM   #4
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

ok i have never changed the cps before. but its not one of the engine codes that came up. and the timing chain is fine just checked that. and the wires should be routed correctly, theyre all different lengths and they are connected according to their lengths. you know what i mean? and i believe i hear the fuel pump when i turn the key but im not sure

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 11:55 AM   #5
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

but i dont think it would be the cables if she was driving and it just cut off and didnt start again. We have driven with the cables the way they are for months

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 11:57 AM   #6
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

how do i tell if i have spark?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:11 PM   #7
hoseppi
Advanced Member
hoseppi will become famous soon enough
 
hoseppi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bowie, Md.
Posts: 608

2002 SL1
2008 Astra XE
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Find a spare spark plug(remove one if you don't have a spare) with the correct gap,hook one of your plug wires to it, and lay it on a metal part of the motor. Now have someone crank the engine as you watch the electrode end of the plug. You should see a bright bluish white spark. Since you now have an assistant, have them turn the key to the off position and then back to the on position as you listen to the fuel fill spout(open fuel door and remove cap). You should be able to hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds each time the key is turned to the run position.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to hoseppi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help hoseppi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
hoseppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:13 PM   #8
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

thanks im going to try those things

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:19 PM   #9
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

An easier way to do this would be to remove the wires from the #4 and #1 ignition coils (noting firing order), then try starting the engine. If you see a spark across the towers, then you have spark.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to adventureoflink's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help adventureoflink reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #10
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

what could be wrong if the fuel pump turns on and i have spark?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:10 PM   #11
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

alright i tested the fuel pump and it works fine. So i guess all that leaves is spark. Im going to test that a little later. And if i have no spark do i need a cam position sensor or a crank position sensor? And what happens if i have spark too?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:18 PM   #12
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

If you have no spark, you need a CRANKSHAFT position sensor, most likely.

If you have spark, further troubleshooting is needed.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to adventureoflink's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help adventureoflink reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:55 PM   #13
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,611
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

You'll find the crankshaft position sensor behind and above the starter, mounted with one 10mm bolt. Buy it from any auto store stocking it.

To be absolutely sure its the cps, remove all the spark plug wires from the two ignition coils and watch for spark across the coil towers as someone turns the ignition key to the START position. The total lack of spark is from a failed cps. A (distant) similar failure would be the ignition control module; it holds the two ignition coils. More cps' fail than ignition control modules.

...
VCX NANO

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 02:41 PM   #14
Leafy
Senior Member
Leafy is on a distinguished road
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sandown, New Hampshire
Posts: 1,427

1994 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoseppi View Post
Find a spare spark plug(remove one if you don't have a spare) with the correct gap,hook one of your plug wires to it, and lay it on a metal part of the motor. Now have someone crank the engine as you watch the electrode end of the plug. You should see a bright bluish white spark. Since you now have an assistant, have them turn the key to the off position and then back to the on position as you listen to the fuel fill spout(open fuel door and remove cap). You should be able to hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds each time the key is turned to the run position.
this is a good way to kill your coils and ICM, dont do it this way, ever. let the spark jump between the two posts on the same coil.

...
1994 SL2 HCE auto 113 hp 113 lbft (wheel) backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier SS
For Sale: FlyWheel, Shifter assembly, Clutch Hydros, 1st gen 5 spd PCM. PM me for prices.

WPI class of '12 ME

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Leafy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Leafy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:17 PM   #15
hoseppi
Advanced Member
hoseppi will become famous soon enough
 
hoseppi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bowie, Md.
Posts: 608

2002 SL1
2008 Astra XE
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

So testing your spark through a sparkplug will blow out your coil and icm...hmmmm- I always thought that was the way the ignition system worked. I do it all the time and I haven't lost one yet.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to hoseppi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help hoseppi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
hoseppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:25 PM   #16
Leafy
Senior Member
Leafy is on a distinguished road
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sandown, New Hampshire
Posts: 1,427

1994 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoseppi View Post
So testing your spark through a sparkplug will blow out your coil and icm...hmmmm- I always thought that was the way the ignition system worked. I do it all the time and I haven't lost one yet.
yes because the plugs ground through the threads and into the cylinder heads and even with the threads touching something metal you wont get a good enough ground. but those coil can still put out enough energy to make a spark there, just not the best thing for them.

...
1994 SL2 HCE auto 113 hp 113 lbft (wheel) backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier SS
For Sale: FlyWheel, Shifter assembly, Clutch Hydros, 1st gen 5 spd PCM. PM me for prices.

WPI class of '12 ME

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Leafy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Leafy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:51 PM   #17
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Oh yeah, about CAMSHAFT Position Sensors... our Saturns DO NOT have them. Generally, 9 times out of 10, if you get a CAMSHAFT code, it's time for new plugs/wires.

Just thought I'd clear this up for ya.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to adventureoflink's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help adventureoflink reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:53 PM   #18
Leafy
Senior Member
Leafy is on a distinguished road
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sandown, New Hampshire
Posts: 1,427

1994 SL2
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
Oh yeah, about CAMSHAFT Position Sensors... our Saturns DO NOT have them. Generally, 9 times out of 10, if you get a CAMSHAFT code, it's time for new plugs/wires.

Just thought I'd clear this up for ya.
and this is because our icm reads the inverse spark on the #4 (or is it #1) piston and sends that to the pcm as if its a camshaft position sensor.

...
1994 SL2 HCE auto 113 hp 113 lbft (wheel) backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier SS
For Sale: FlyWheel, Shifter assembly, Clutch Hydros, 1st gen 5 spd PCM. PM me for prices.

WPI class of '12 ME

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Leafy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Leafy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #19
MikeNW
Master Member
MikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really nice
 
MikeNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lower Alabama= God's country, if God wanted mosquito and red ant bites, and to be covered in mildew
Posts: 3,441
 

1997 SL
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

"Before this happened when you press the gas lightly the whole car shakes but when you floor the gas its smooth"

that is from the original post. So, did we rule out the TPS as a problem?

If the OP fixed the problem, what was it, we'd like to know.

...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
02 Haro MTB- can't kill it, still trying though

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to MikeNW's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help MikeNW reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
MikeNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 08:11 AM   #20
alltrac88
Junior Member
alltrac88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Default Re: 97 sl2 just died

alright guys thanks for all the responses. i went to advance auto and bought a spark tester because someone said it could damage the coils if i didnt. And what do you know i have no spark at all. I tested cyl 1 wire from coil 1 and cyl 2 wire from coil 2 just to be sure it wasnt just a coil. So i guess that means I need a crankshaft position sensor.
Another question though: would a faulty cps make the car shake alot when you lightly press the throttle and shake a little at idle and it doesnt shake at all when you fully press it? Or does it need a tps as well?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alltrac88's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alltrac88 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alltrac88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help, SL2 Died... anarsil53117 S-Series General 5 06-08-2008 11:51 AM
OMG! My car just died on me out of nowhere! Killah_Trakz S-Series General 18 11-18-2005 11:21 AM
New VUE Died Ryster Vue General 18 08-26-2003 04:14 PM
Car Died, Please help SIYAM Miscellaneous Tech 16 05-26-2002 11:15 PM
The Car just DIED ! SlwDeth S-Series Tech 9 01-02-2001 10:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:55 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.