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Old 09-30-2008, 09:19 AM   #1
Seasoned
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Default High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Hi Guys,

I, like others on this forum, have taken to increasing tire pressures to help reduce fuel consumption. I run mine around 34 psi which I have found to be a good compromise between comfort, road holding and fuel consumption improvement.
However, as I found out this morning, there is a downside to increasing tire pressures.
This morning there is a light drizzle happening, I am on my way to work, driving over a bridge I enter a downhill stretch just before I make the final turn into the street where I work. I signal the right turn.
Approaching the intersection I apply the brakes which immmediately lock up and the ABS intervenes, so I am heading towards the intersection which, fortunately, has the traffic signals in my favor, out of control. I see a semi truck in the road where I want to turn so decide to keep it straight, glad I did, for sure I would have hit the truck if I had tried to turn.
Finally stopped in the middle of the intersection, suitably embarrassed with all onlookers wondering why this guy was signalling right and was now skidding across the intersection, made the turn and arrived at work.

So the lesson to be learned here is very simple. By all means increase tire pressures to improve gas mileage, as you wish, but remember it does change the dynamics of the vehicle and a nearly 4,000 lb vehicle driving at not too high a speed (approx 50 mph), downhill, on a wet road on the infamous Goodyear tires takes some stopping. Therefore, please make adjustments to your driving habits to ensure you don't have the same thing happen to you. I was lucky, the results could have been a lot worse.

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Old 09-30-2008, 09:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Good advice.

The point at which the roads are initially damp is usually the slipperiest (is that a word?) because the oils/crap left on the road during dry weather oozes to the surface. After a decent rain it all gets washed away.

I haven't had any issues with stopping and turning on damp/wet roads with the Goodyears on my XR but take offs almost always result in spinning tires and the TC kicking in. Really need to feather the throttle.

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Old 09-30-2008, 09:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

I seriously doubt your tire pressure had anything to do with that incident.

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Old 09-30-2008, 09:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

I have read many responses on this forum regarding raising tire pressure well over manufacturer specs in the name of fuel economy. A little is fine, but going well over (or under) does greatly influence the tire's contact patch. There are specs on the tire sidwall. The max pressure relates to the load rating for the tire. If you put the same tire on a lighter car, it will have to run with less air pressure to maintain a safe contact patch. Though, it's pointless to raise this as an issue, particularly on this board, because people believe whatever they want dispite the evidence. It's better to put their and others lives at risk than to sacrifice a couple miles per gallon. There are low rolling resistance tires which are designed to run safely at higher pressures. Hopefully, a few will weigh your experience and stop this dangerous practice.

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Old 09-30-2008, 10:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

i have to agree. 30 or 34 points are well within the normal range and probably wasnt to blame for the skidding. 40 pounds then maybe. in minnesota tires can flucuate 4 pounds easy in a day do to outside temps.

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Old 09-30-2008, 10:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasoned View Post
...I apply the brakes which immmediately lock up and the ABS intervenes, so I am heading towards the intersection ... out of control...
1) if you are "applying brakes" and they lock up, you had your foot to the floor. if you did not have your foot to the floor, then your brakes weren't locked up. if your brakes weren't locked up and you started moving in a direction that your tires were not turned, then it was not ABS that intervened but rather ESC. It sounds like what you experienced was hydroplaning which from my understanding is reduced by a smaller contact patch (higher PSI in the tire) due to a larger per-square-inch weight from car -> ground caused by the smaller area. A wider tire disperses this weight, and would be more likely to hydroplane - feel free to correct me if i'm wrong here, though. if this is the case, and you were hydroplaning, then plain and simple you were overdriving the road conditions and have nothing to blame but yourself.
2) if your brakes did indeed lock up as you were "applying" them, you have a much larger problem and should make an appt at your dealership ASAP.
3) if you actually spun the car around while ESC was activated, that is damn impressive.

...
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

I have my tires at 34 and while I have read many complaints about the tires (and I myself feel they could have put much better tires on the car) I have never had an issue with them in the rain or in general other than my personal preference to them. While they will spin out easily because of the power, I obviously don't floor it in bad weather, but I also do not consciously drive much different.

As bc3tech mentioned, I would be a hell of a lot more concerned with why did my brakes lock up like mad that easily than the tires skidding in rain.

It definitely sounds like you caught a bad patch of road and it cause you to hydroplane. I have had this happen before on rwd and its a scary feeling! Be safe and best of luck

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Old 09-30-2008, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Of course higher tire pressures will make the car less prone to hydroplaning.

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasoned View Post
Hi Guys,

I, like others on this forum, have taken to increasing tire pressures to help reduce fuel consumption. I run mine around 34 psi which I have found to be a good compromise between comfort, road holding and fuel consumption improvement.
However, as I found out this morning, there is a downside to increasing tire pressures.
This morning there is a light drizzle happening, I am on my way to work, driving over a bridge I enter a downhill stretch just before I make the final turn into the street where I work. I signal the right turn.
Approaching the intersection I apply the brakes which immmediately lock up and the ABS intervenes, so I am heading towards the intersection which, fortunately, has the traffic signals in my favor, out of control. I see a semi truck in the road where I want to turn so decide to keep it straight, glad I did, for sure I would have hit the truck if I had tried to turn.
Finally stopped in the middle of the intersection, suitably embarrassed with all onlookers wondering why this guy was signalling right and was now skidding across the intersection, made the turn and arrived at work.

So the lesson to be learned here is very simple. By all means increase tire pressures to improve gas mileage, as you wish, but remember it does change the dynamics of the vehicle and a nearly 4,000 lb vehicle driving at not too high a speed (approx 50 mph), downhill, on a wet road on the infamous Goodyear tires takes some stopping. Therefore, please make adjustments to your driving habits to ensure you don't have the same thing happen to you. I was lucky, the results could have been a lot worse.
Personally, Id stick to factory tire pressure. The pressures were set that way from factory for a reason. Its not worth the risk of wrecking just to gain an extra 20-50 miles per tank a couple MPG. If you want to add a few MPG and 10-20HP, do the obvious, get a K&N Filter and some aftermarket exhaust.

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco0623 View Post
I have my tires at 34 and while I have read many complaints about the tires (and I myself feel they could have put much better tires on the car) I have never had an issue with them in the rain or in general other than my personal preference to them. While they will spin out easily because of the power, I obviously don't floor it in bad weather, but I also do not consciously drive much different.

As bc3tech mentioned, I would be a hell of a lot more concerned with why did my brakes lock up like mad that easily than the tires skidding in rain.

It definitely sounds like you caught a bad patch of road and it cause you to hydroplane. I have had this happen before on rwd and its a scary feeling! Be safe and best of luck
FWD cars just have a totally different feel in the rain. To me it feels much more dangerous. I used to have a crappy mercury cougar(FWD) and when I'd drive in the rain, every little puddle on the road could be felt. But then again, it didnt have ABS or Traction Control. I just always believed FWD cars arent great in rainy weather. Ive had my Aura a little over a month and I havent had to drive in heavy rain yet, so Im cant accurately comment on how it feels. Now that I think of it, I dont think Ive even turned on my wipers at all lol.

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Honestly I have never had a problem with the stock Goodyears and never a problem with increased PSI, I have mine at 34 in front. I have made it through ran and even snow without a problem. I live in Chicago and everyone knows how the winters are here. I see SUV and 4 wheel drives in the ditch all winter long and you should see the beater I drive, and I have never got stuck or lost control at all. People think that because they have AWD (even FWD for that matter) and ABS that the rule to adjust for weather conditions doesnít apply to them. And I am not trying to imply that you donít know how to drive or you are driving around like a mad man. Anyone driving a car for any length of time has been in a situation where you say ok maybe I should slow down a bit.

How fast were you going over the bridge? Most bridges here are made of concrete and most roads are made of asphalt. What was the bridge and road made of that were you on? Also there is usually a slight difference where the two surfaces meet (bump or difference in heights). Was this the case? I guess what I am getting at is if your speed was slightly fast and you applied your brakes at the point where the bridge and road surface change you could have possibly been hydroplaning like previously suggested.

Another possibility is, lot of time the roads at intersections have oil and other fluids left behind by leaking vehicles sitting at the red light, this could also have caused your sliding coupled with the rain. We all know oil and water donít mix.

...
Shane
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Funny, I do not remember any posts with anybody claiming to be exceeding the manufacturers tire sidewall indicated maximum tire pressure. Running 34 psi in a tire (Hankook) that is well within the indicated maximum is not "dangerous". I also am one of those who have posted indicating that I am running 34 psi in my tires to eliminate the soft sidewall "squirm" that you get at the Saturn recommended 30 psi rating. Also, I know that tire pressure can vary 4-5 psi from one day to the next depending on outside air temperature and driving conditions such as speed, surface (tar, concrete, gravel, etc). Personally, I find 34 psi to be a better match to my driving habits and safer overall. When I asked at Saturn about what I considered to be low tire pressures on my Aura, I was told that Saturn uses 30 psi pretty much across the board on ratings, and that is is easier for the service personnel to remember tire pressure settings. They actually removed air from my tires during service, and I immediately noticed the "squirm" on my drive home - upon which I pumped the tires back to 34 psi and made a mental note to tell Saturn to leave my tires alone on my next service visit. Maybe Saturn (GM) needs to start putting quality tires on their cars instead of crap like Hankook, Goodyear LS and Firestone FS tires - all among the lowest rated tires at TireRack, Discount Tire and Consumer Reports. Goodyear makes much better tires, such as the Assurance Comfortred's I have on some of my other cars. Also, the Yokohama AVID tires on my Ford Freestyle are pretty good (Goodyear Assurance did not come in the correct size or I would have gotten them instead). I guess GM sometimes puts cost savings over quality or safety. Either that, or they get a $ cut from the tire manufacturers who sucker people into getting a 2nd set of "winter" tires to compensate for the poor quality and often downright unsafe (in rain, ice and snow) factory tire. With a quality radial tire, you do not need separate winter tires - even in the snowbelt - based on over 35 years of midwest winter driving.

...
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
...When I asked at Saturn about what I considered to be low tire pressures on my Aura, I was told that Saturn uses 30 psi pretty much across the board on ratings, and that is is easier for the service personnel to remember tire pressure settings.....
This would be incompetent performance on their part if they followed such a blanket service target. The Astra with 18" rims (and I believe the Vue as well) run 35psi at normal loads. Though they might get away with it in older cars without TPMS.

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Old 09-30-2008, 03:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Thanks for the information. I am glad to hear that you made it through this ordeal safely.

...
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR524 View Post
FWD cars just have a totally different feel in the rain. To me it feels much more dangerous. I used to have a crappy mercury cougar(FWD) and when I'd drive in the rain, every little puddle on the road could be felt. But then again, it didnt have ABS or Traction Control. I just always believed FWD cars arent great in rainy weather. Ive had my Aura a little over a month and I havent had to drive in heavy rain yet, so Im cant accurately comment on how it feels. Now that I think of it, I dont think Ive even turned on my wipers at all lol.
I have driven my XR in very heavy rain (wipers on high, required to go <40mph to even be remotely safe) and have had zero problems. The only time i've ran in to trouble was when i was on a damp road (rain had already passed) and took a curve going too fast. ESC kicked in and saved my dumb ass, but again - was my own fault.

...
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR524 View Post
Personally, Id stick to factory tire pressure. The pressures were set that way from factory for a reason.
True and that reason is mostly to do with ride quality. Less pressure = softer ride. Higher = harsher. The trick is to find the balance to where it won't reduce safety.

...
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:16 AM   #17
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Default Its the driver.........

.......not the tires. You avoided a weather related accident not an equipment relate one. Good Skid LS tires rate about average for wet weather performance (Tire Rack). Just got to slow down for conditions or clean your shorts!

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Old 10-01-2008, 07:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

I haven't had a problem on the Hankooks. Not saying I like them, but I don't remember the last time I drove with All-season touring style tires before this car. Truth be told, when it comes time to replace them, directional tread is a must and something stickier.

I remember when I put Goodyear Eagle GT-HR tires on the wagon. The drive home was phenomonal. They're still on there, but I don't know how many miles are on them, but they're at least 3 years old.

...
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

I find the 17" Hankooks to ride fine and reasonably quiet. They perform well in the wet. Keep the pressure at 32 psi and find the handling reasonable too. I haven't enterred or intend to enter any Solo II events

This year has been higher than normal rain levels and I drive over 6000 kms a month. I know I could drive through the winter on them. Slow down and drive for the conditions but, why take the chance when winter tires would provide improved traction and stopping capability. If you live in an area with ice, slush or snow during the winter season, I'd recommend snows regardless of the all-season rubber folks are running.

...
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Old 10-03-2008, 01:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: High Tire Pressures-Beware!

Quote:
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I have driven my XR in very heavy rain (wipers on high, required to go <40mph to even be remotely safe) and have had zero problems. The only time i've ran in to trouble was when i was on a damp road (rain had already passed) and took a curve going too fast. ESC kicked in and saved my dumb ass, but again - was my own fault.
strange. seems impossible to me. maybe somethings wrong with my traction control...

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