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Old 02-21-2008, 07:04 PM   #1
jnk111
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Default Heating and tempurature problems

I needs some opinions on this one ( I kind of have an idea, just want to verify with what others think).

Yesterday, actually for awhile now, yesterday was especially bad, I only have real heat under higher rpms. I was going to back flush the heater core this weekend now something new came up. Today I had almost no heat no matter what and the temp gauge would climb to about halfway at a stoplight and cool back down rapidly after I started to move again. At a stop I could watch the gauge "jump" higher to about the halfway mark, but still no heat even under some RPMs. Coolant level is OK and no visible leaks.

I had replaced the ECTS and thermostat a couples of months back.
The car is a 1997 SL1.

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Old 02-21-2008, 07:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

Nice, I just noticed how I spelled temperature in the title.
And no edit button on the original post

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Old 02-21-2008, 07:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

The "Edit" button turns into a pumpkin after 15 minutes.

If, by "jump", you mean the needle abruptly moves right to the center (1/2) line, then you still have an ECTS problem. Probably the connector. It could be turning the fan on unnecessarily, causing the engine to run unduly cool.

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Old 02-21-2008, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
The "Edit" button turns into a pumpkin after 15 minutes.

If, by "jump", you mean the needle abruptly moves right to the center (1/2) line, then you still have an ECTS problem. Probably the connector. It could be turning the fan on unnecessarily, causing the engine to run unduly cool.

No, by jump I mean little increments from 3/8 to 1/2, Then when I start moving again it will drop back down.
I should of added that the connector was also replaced

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Old 02-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

If the brass ECTS was the replacement and a new thermostat was put in, did you 'burp' the baby properly when refilling the coolant? Since you did the work it may help to review what occurred in the past, opening the cooling system for service and ensuring air wasn't introduced inadvertently to stop the heater coil from providing heat. Have you felt the heater hoses for coolant? I would guess another try at burping is on order to get the coolant flowing back into the heater coils. Typical, babies and old cars gettin' colicky.

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Old 02-21-2008, 08:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
If the brass ECTS was the replacement and a new thermostat was put in, did you 'burp' the baby properly when refilling the coolant? Since you did the work it may help to review what occurred in the past, opening the cooling system for service and ensuring air wasn't introduced inadvertently to stop the heater coil from providing heat. Have you felt the heater hoses for coolant? I would guess another try at burping is on order to get the coolant flowing back into the heater coils. Typical, babies and old cars gettin' colicky.

Yes the replacement is brass, actually the old one was also. I bought car back in November and did the work at that time, after reading on the forums. I did burp the system at that time also.

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Old 02-21-2008, 08:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

Well, if the temperature drops when the car moves, I'd say the thermostat is stuck open. I know it's relatively new, but DOA (or "infant mortality") new parts aren't unheard of.

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Old 02-22-2008, 06:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

OK here is what I was thinking.

The water pump impeller is failing (corroding) not allowing enough coolant to be pumped at idle. This would explain no heat until I had some rpms under it, it could also explain yesterdays "heating" up at a stop light, then coming down while moving. Yet the pump may still not be able to get enough pressure to get coolant to the heater core.


I let it warm up somewhat last evening, I know thermostat is closed at this point, lower hose was cold, upper warm. It was fairly cold out so I didn't look at it very long. I have a second vehicle to drive so there was no hurry.

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Old 02-22-2008, 04:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

My last reply was not a statement as a solution, Just wondering what others thought of it.

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Old 02-22-2008, 05:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnk111 View Post
No, by jump I mean little increments from 3/8 to 1/2, Then when I start moving again it will drop back down.
I should of added that the connector was also replaced
That's not really abnormal. The cooling fan will come on somewhere around 1/2 way and cool it down when you are sitting. When you are moving, you have good airflow and it stays cool. So far, you haven't said anything that sounds really abnormal to me.

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Old 02-22-2008, 05:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnk111 View Post
OK here is what I was thinking.

The water pump impeller is failing (corroding) not allowing enough coolant to be pumped at idle. This would explain no heat until I had some rpms under it, it could also explain yesterdays "heating" up at a stop light, then coming down while moving. Yet the pump may still not be able to get enough pressure to get coolant to the heater core.


I let it warm up somewhat last evening, I know thermostat is closed at this point, lower hose was cold, upper warm. It was fairly cold out so I didn't look at it very long. I have a second vehicle to drive so there was no hurry.

I'm much more inclined to agree with Madpouge about the stuck open thermostat. Many cars will heat up at a stop due to lack of flow over the radiator. If the pump wasn't moving water it would keep going up, especially under higher load and high revs when generating more heat.

It's also possible that if the core is restricted, it just doesn't generate enough water flow until higher revs, at which point it helps pull extra heat off the engine.

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Old 02-22-2008, 07:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

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Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
That's not really abnormal. The cooling fan will come on somewhere around 1/2 way and cool it down when you are sitting. When you are moving, you have good airflow and it stays cool. So far, you haven't said anything that sounds really abnormal to me.

It is abnormal for what I have been experiencing since I first bought the car. The incline in temp is very different from what I have noticed in the past, much faster. Also the fact that the outside temps were in single digits. I would expect this behavior in hotter weather.

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Old 02-22-2008, 07:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

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Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
I'm much more inclined to agree with Madpouge about the stuck open thermostat. Many cars will heat up at a stop due to lack of flow over the radiator. If the pump wasn't moving water it would keep going up, especially under higher load and high revs when generating more heat.

It's also possible that if the core is restricted, it just doesn't generate enough water flow until higher revs, at which point it helps pull extra heat off the engine.

Thermostat is not stuck open, I did check that. Lower hose was cold, the upper was warm. I am should have time tomorrow to look into it further.

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Old 02-22-2008, 07:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: Heating and tempurature problems

Unless the previous owner and you ran with straight water without the benefit of any anti-freeze, the chances of the water pump impeller eroding away is fanciful imagination and not a reason for your predicament. Anti-freeze, when felt between the fingers, lubricates and provides corrosion protection to all the metal surfaces, preventing erosion from occuring. Your heater coil may just be plugged and your weekend project to flush the coil will most likely help. There is a recent post from someone with this very same problem and the mechanic recalled that the reverse flushing was difficult at the beginning until successfully completing it. The owner now has to turn down the heat that wasn't there before! Hopefully that's all your problem is. Look for the thread as there's a great cooling system diagram that was posted by a senior member.

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