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Old 04-08-2010, 06:02 PM   #81
SaturnNJeep
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Bill, I want to try the Rotella oil, but, for the 5W40, I found only this Rotella T6 oil, is that what you used? They, meaning Advance, had just Rotella, but, only the 15W40. I didn't know which one you used, as I'll be changing my oil this weekend. My oil consumption has been about a quart every 300 miles or so, so I want to get this down as much as possible. I still have to change the PCV, if I can find the stupid thing. There are no leaks on the outside of the motor, aside from a VERY small leak at the valve cover on the back side, which I'm addressing when I change the oil. Thanks!!

Jerry

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Old 07-10-2018, 09:02 AM   #82
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

My first post in a long while, I'm possibly back in the game because I'm looking at Saturn S-series or L-series as a possible winter car. I always liked this thread and think that it's still useful to those having oil consumption issues, and after reading through this after never following up I have a few things to offer.

I did end up using (then) "German" Castrol in my Saturn (both actually) and they seemed to 'love it'. I experienced lower usage in my 96' SL and was able to go on extended drains while driving out of state for a job. At 8,000 miles I think I used two qts. over 3-4 months of summer highway driving.

"German" Castrol 0W-30 became Belgian Castrol a few years back and seems to be no longer readily available. The closest thing is Castrol 0W-40, which is still manufactured in Germany and is highly regarded. You can get it at Walmart in 5qt. jugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnNJeep View Post
Bill, I want to try the Rotella oil, but, for the 5W40, I found only this Rotella T6 oil, is that what you used? They, meaning Advance, had just Rotella, but, only the 15W40....
Jerry
To answer an 8 year old question by someone that doesn't post here anymore Rotella T-6 5W-40 is the synthetic in the blue bottle. The 15W-40 would be conventional but still a good option for summer in a burner. Rotella also makes a T-5 10W-30 syn-blend that also is well regarded in older vehicles.

I'm not sure using synthetic will reduce oil consumption in every 1.9L Saturn, but there are many good options of high mileage synthetics now as well as conventional. One thing in this thread was the cost issue. The truth is that if you use rebates, it's often less than buying off brand synthetics or even conventional oils. So always check the "Promotions" part of major websites like https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/promo...omotion-8.html which has a $10 rebate right now on 5qts. Mobil1, Havoline, and Valvoline also regularly have periodic rebates. Personally, I'm a fan of Quaker State full syn as it's a bargain oil...

Cheers.

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Old 07-10-2018, 12:27 PM   #83
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Well, if you are looking between the S-Series and an L-Series, this shouldn't even be a choice that requires thought. I guess ot depends on how often you want to replace your timing chain on the four cylinder L-Series, entire engine assembly on the V6 L-Series(when the head gaskets/timing belt tensioner both fail), or just periodically add oil.....

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 07-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #84
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=233724

Here is a thread, with photos, showing the actual real-life results(very satisfactory) from the Shell Rotella T6 5w-40. It cleans very well, and even with mine burning through the valve stems, my oil stays dark brown after 3k, instead of pitch black like the 15w-40 T3/Dexron-III mix I used to run.

It is what I am running in my Saturn, and is convenient for oil burners because you can redeem the miles rewards for gifts cards to buy more oil.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 07-11-2018, 09:58 AM   #85
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Well, if you are looking between the S-Series and an L-Series, this shouldn't even be a choice that requires thought. I guess ot depends on how often you want to replace your timing chain on the four cylinder L-Series, entire engine assembly on the V6 L-Series(when the head gaskets/timing belt tensioner both fail), or just periodically add oil.....
S-series it is then...

Thanks for the link...

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Old 07-12-2018, 03:24 PM   #86
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Well, if you are looking between the S-Series and an L-Series, this shouldn't even be a choice that requires thought. I guess ot depends on how often you want to replace your timing chain on the four cylinder L-Series, entire engine assembly on the V6 L-Series(when the head gaskets/timing belt tensioner both fail), or just periodically add oil.....
My LW200 had the timing chain replaced under the recall before I hit 100K. It's now approaching 260K. I'm using Mobil1 5W30 every 5K miles, and I lose about 1/2-3/4 qt between oil changes. The car still runs smooth - granted it was never exactly powerful - and I still get over 30mpg on the highway. I don't know what other people are doing, because I don't get why the ecotec gets a bad rap. They still make essentially the same motor...

...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 260K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2

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Old 07-12-2018, 11:30 PM   #87
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGraz View Post
My LW200 had the timing chain replaced under the recall before I hit 100K. It's now approaching 260K. I'm using Mobil1 5W30 every 5K miles, and I lose about 1/2-3/4 qt between oil changes. The car still runs smooth - granted it was never exactly powerful - and I still get over 30mpg on the highway. I don't know what other people are doing, because I don't get why the ecotec gets a bad rap. They still make essentially the same motor...
The Scrap-O-Tec gets a bad rap, because GMs engineers(as well as Opel/Lotus engineers), tried to do with a timing chain engine, that should have been done with a timing belt engine: Geared the water pump into the engine timing.

A timing chain can't compensate for the end-play that eventually develops in the water pump bearings. A rubber belt can absorb that miniscule vibration. A steel chain can not absorb it.

Couple that vibration with the oil hole being drilled too small, in the chain tensioners, as well as the power steering pump being driven by the intake camshaft(instead of by the serpentine belt), and you have a lot of negative frictional forces on a weak part of the engine with insufficient lubrication.

Hence, why they snap chains. Since it is an interference design, the valve contact the pistons, and viola: You now are doing a complete teardown and rebuild.

They also suffer from leaky water pumps, which mix the coolant with the oil(another genius design of having a water pump geared to the timing chain).

Turbo/Supercharged Scrap-O-Tecs suffer from cracked blocks, and the Direct Injection systems causes the valves to get carboned up with dirty oil from the PCV system, causing premature valve train failures.

The final gen Scrap-O-Tec 2.4L(discontinued after the 2014 model year), had so many issues with "stuck oil control rings"(Gee, that sounds like a very familiar symptom to us S-Series owners....lolol), that GM actually tried to cover it up by reprogramming the PCMs to turn on the OLM light sooner, to prevent all the under-warranty rebuilds their dealerships were doing.

It may be a "new" company, after the bailout and shut down of Pontiac/Saturn, but it is still the "same" GM philosophy.....

The water pump design failures of the Eco-Tec are nothing new. Oldsmobile had the same exact problem with their 2.3L Quad 4 engine, produced from 1988-1995(and later revised into the 2.4L Twin Cam for 1996-2002).

So, the problem with water pump failures was nothing new to GMs engineering department. They knew that was a faulty design and still applied it the engine family.

The stuck oil control rings? Well, we know where that problem first occurred and how to correct it by simply drilling holes into the pistons. So, once again, this is not a "new" problem that GMs engineers are unfamiliar with.

Cracked Blocks on a turbo? Issues from "thin-wall casting" processes. Common sense would tell most when you increase heat and pressure on a thin object it is more likely to break/split than a thicker object with more mass.

Oil-contamination on direct injection? Now, who would have thought that a liquid, solvent-based fuel spray actually helps keep the intake valves clean from PCV contamination? I would have never guessed that having fuel spray hitting the valve surfaces actually helps keep oil from building up on them....

This is why the Eco-Tec gets such a bad rep. They were a poorly-designed engine family from Opel in Germany(in fact they were first used in Opel automobiles BEFORE the Saturn L-Series) that had many issues making them failure prone. This is why I don't buy German-Engineered cars(like BMW/Mercedes-Benz...)

Your replacement timing chain has a redesigned tensioner, with a larger-drilled hole for the oil flow. The issue was only present at idle, when oil flow and pressure is at its lowest. Keeping the revs up on stock chains would actually extend the life of the chain.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

Last edited by Saturn Night; 07-12-2018 at 11:38 PM..

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Old 07-13-2018, 09:01 AM   #88
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
The final gen Scrap-O-Tec 2.4L(discontinued after the 2014 model year)

...

Your replacement timing chain has a redesigned tensioner, with a larger-drilled hole for the oil flow. The issue was only present at idle, when oil flow and pressure is at its lowest. Keeping the revs up on stock chains would actually extend the life of the chain.
OK, look - I'm not arguing with anything you wrote, as you clearly know more about this than I do. But after reading all that I can't help but wonder how it's even possible that mine has lasted so long. And unless they changed the water pump when they did the chain recall, it's still got the original. In fact most of what's under my hood is original. The car has needed very little work. The most expensive repair was the fuel pump which died around 200K - but that's unrelated to the ecotec.

Also - I thought I read that the new Polaris Slingshot uses the same 2.4L Ecotec that they sourced from GM. So they're just using up old 2014 engines that GM had leftover???

...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 260K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2

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Old 07-15-2018, 09:49 AM   #89
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGraz View Post
OK, look - I'm not arguing with anything you wrote, as you clearly know more about this than I do. But after reading all that I can't help but wonder how it's even possible that mine has lasted so long. And unless they changed the water pump when they did the chain recall, it's still got the original. In fact most of what's under my hood is original. The car has needed very little work. The most expensive repair was the fuel pump which died around 200K - but that's unrelated to the ecotec.

Also - I thought I read that the new Polaris Slingshot uses the same 2.4L Ecotec that they sourced from GM. So they're just using up old 2014 engines that GM had leftover???
Couldn't tell you what Polaris is doing.

The 1989 Pontiac Firebird had a "single-year, model-specific" engine option for the Buick 3.8L V6 Turbo that was used in the Buick Grand National. The Buick Grand National was discontinued at the end of the 1987 model year.

One could ask, "Did GM use up its remaining stock of engines, for the Grand National, by dumping them into the Firebird?"

Although, IF you ate correct, I now know better than to ever invest in a Polaris.....

As far as your chain and water pump? There are "Exceptions" to everything in the automotive industry. Ask a "good" mechanic, that has about 20-30 years of experience, and they will confirm what I have stated about reputation of that engine.

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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 07-15-2018, 05:56 PM   #90
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

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As far as your chain and water pump? There are "Exceptions" to everything in the automotive industry. Ask a "good" mechanic, that has about 20-30 years of experience, and they will confirm what I have stated about reputation of that engine.
I have a good mechanic, and he is always surprised at my car. He's made comments like "Nobody gets 200K on any Saturn". Personally, I think it's because people don't maintain them like I do - and also, like any mechanic, he only sees the broken ones!

Again - I'm not doubting any of what you have said - all I can say is that my experience with my own car has been all good. It's the most reliable car I've ever owned (based on $ spent per mile). That's not just something I say lightly - I track all maintenance and repair costs and I've spent less on this car than any other - including my 3 S-series cars, other GM cars, and even the Volvos.

...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 260K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2

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Old 07-16-2018, 08:37 AM   #91
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Default Re: Oil experiment update, 97 SC!

Quote:
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I have a good mechanic, and he is always surprised at my car. He's made comments like "Nobody gets 200K on any Saturn". Personally, I think it's because people don't maintain them like I do - and also, like any mechanic, he only sees the broken ones!
A lot of the higher mile ones are owned by DIYers

From 2002
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11515

From 2014
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=205145

And just generally
https://www.google.com/search?q=200k...ns.com&ie=&oe=

200k on an S series is - for the cars that survived inattentive owners - nothing, really. I have two over 200k right now

...
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