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Old 11-01-2003, 09:49 PM   #1
92saturnsl2
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Default Brake Pedal Goes to Floor -- why?

I replaced the rear drum brakes with discs today, and upon doing so I lost about 1/4 qt of fluid. When I got the brakes assembled, I tried them out, and now my brakes dont engage till about 1/2" off the floor.

They work okay, but I can't do hard stops. I tried to bleed the brakes by having a friend pump them, and then I unscrewed the brake hose for each rear side. I tightened them, still I have very little brakes.

I tried bleeding the master cylinder by loosening each line, while someone pumped the brakes. Still no go.

Any suggestions on how to get them working normal again? Would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 11-01-2003, 10:00 PM   #2
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Sounds like you still have air in your system.

Did you unscrew the VALVE on the caliper or the whole brake hose that is attached to the caliper?

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Old 11-01-2003, 10:30 PM   #3
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I'm curious as to how many times your friend pumped the pedal/you unscrewed the bleeder. By your description, it's sounds like you did each wheel one time. Bleeding brakes properly at the best of times requires several cycles of:

pedal up
pedal down
bleeder open (pedal drops)
bleeder closed

pedal up etc...

The above needs to be repeated on each side until no more air bubbles come out of the bleeder.

if it's just calipers that got put on the rear, the master cylinder should not need to be bled... UNLESS you allowed the fluid in the master cylinder to drop such that air got into the master cylinder. If this is the case, then the master, fronts and rears will all need to be bled.

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Old 11-01-2003, 10:38 PM   #4
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And buy the speed bleed valve (for the rear tires, at the leat), they will save you HOURS!!!

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Old 11-01-2003, 10:49 PM   #5
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I'd put my money on air getting in due to a low fluid level.

One side was dripping the whole time it was being converted, and when I got to checking the brake fluid, the master cyl was almost empty.

I did repeat the bleeding procedure several times on the rear brakes. NO air is escaping from the rears, so it's probably due to the fact I didn't bleed everything.

I'll have the mechanic at work take a look. He loves bleeding brakes (not really) but does it all the time on forklifts, so I think he's the guy for the job.

Thanks all for the information!

BTW-- I was using the brake line that goes to the caliper to bleed the brakes. Is this the correct procedure? where is the "valve" located at?

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Old 11-01-2003, 10:53 PM   #6
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If you're not a licenced ASE certified mechanic
You shouldn't be doing your own brake jobs or modifying your brake system
It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're doing
Take my advice - get help!
You could kill yourself (or someone else)
JMO
WOT

Last edited by WopOnTour; 11-01-2003 at 11:03 PM..

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Old 11-01-2003, 11:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by 92saturnsl2
BTW-- I was using the brake line that goes to the caliper to bleed the brakes. Is this the correct procedure? where is the "valve" located at?

So, you disconnected the brake line from the caliper to bleed brake? It is not correct.

No wonder you got air in your system.

There are bleeding valve hiding in under a rubber cap on the each caliper.

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Old 11-02-2003, 01:16 PM   #8
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Russell speed bleeders do help. But, I would have to agree with WOT and amazinghl. If you're pulling the brake line, you should be bringing it to someone else who has experience doing them.

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Old 11-02-2003, 05:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by WopOnTour
If you're not a licenced ASE certified mechanic
You shouldn't be doing your own brake jobs or modifying your brake system
It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're doing
Take my advice - get help!
You could kill yourself (or someone else)
JMO
WOT
Who said I was driving the vehicle? How am I going to kill myself when the vehicle is stationary on top of jackstands?

Your post, and others like it, are an insult to my intelligence. Believe it or not, I *am* very knowledgable in doing automotive repair. Brake systems I haven't really touched, but hey-- How are you going to learn without ever messing with them?

Please don't fill the board up with useless nonsense, you're wasting bandwidth (IMO). I'll be the judge of what is safe, and what my ability is in performing repairs.

In either case, I appreciate the helpful posts. I did complete the job by bleeding all four sides, and the pedal height is fine again.

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Old 11-02-2003, 06:04 PM   #10
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Well, my state doesn't license mechanics (just shops) so under that rule of thumb. I'd really be up a creek!!

I'm not a professional mechanic, but I do put a lot of time and effort into studying systems before attempting to work on them. One of the ways to learn is forums like this.

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Old 11-02-2003, 06:51 PM   #11
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92saturnsl2, did you also bleed the front brakes? I don't know if it is possible for air to go from the rear to the front, but since you are bleeding the rear, bleed the front too.

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Old 11-02-2003, 07:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by 92saturnsl2
In either case, I appreciate the helpful posts. I did complete the job by bleeding all four sides, and the pedal height is fine again.

...
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Old 11-02-2003, 07:15 PM   #13
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92SaturnSL2, I wouldn't take it so hard. It's just that brakes are one of those things that you shouldn't mess with unless you're ABSOLUTELY sure. I'm by no means ASE certified. But, I've worked with brakes quite a bit. You're right, you have to start somewhere. Luckily this forum is here to help guide you through the processes. But, I think we all were a bit surprised about how you initially bled the brake system. Nobody is insulting your mechanical know-how.

Hope the next one goes a little smoother.

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Old 11-02-2003, 07:23 PM   #14
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Lol -- no offense taken.

The car didn't need to be driven, I made sure of that before attempting the work. One of those precautions to make sure I don't have to go anywhere without brakes in case I f#%ed something up.

It usually takes doing something once or twice before I get it down pat. Brakes (the hydraulic portion of them) is something I am not wholly familiar with. But I did learn something in the process, and the whole thing works good and was free.

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Old 11-02-2003, 10:20 PM   #15
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Bleed all the brakes starting with the longest line working to the shortest....PR-DR-PF-DF........

Have your assistant pump the peddle 10 times keeping there foot on the peddle with the last pump.

attach a suitable bleed hose the bleeder valve run into a glass mayo jar with some brake fluid in it

open bleed valve assistant foot should go to the floor have them keep it there until you close the bleed valve.

Repeat this several times on each bleed valve until there is no more air in the lines and or the fluid looks clean coming out of each bleed valve.

be sure to refill the brake reservoir as needed which is some times twice at each brake bleed valve.

you really want to get the old dirty fluid out of the system this is why I do it myself because often license mechanics are to rushed or impatient to do this most important step.

On an older car it can take several bottles of brake fluid. I do this at every major brake job or when the system is opened up anywhere.

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Old 11-02-2003, 10:41 PM   #16
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Hey LIGHTEN UP!
What I said way GET SOME QUALIFIED HELP!!
If you don't know what a bleeder valve is IMO YOU SHOULDN'T BE WORKING ON BRAKES!! Do you even understand then the implications of modfying your brake system to go from drums to disc? Did you alter the proportioning system or alter the bias?
I don't mind helping people with basic aspects of their car and even most mechanical repairs, but unqualified DIYers repairing and modifying bralkes and and safety systems is where I draw the line (I for one CARE about the safety of others, you obviously DO NOT)
GROW UP!
WOT

PS> *Why don't you check with your lawyer, LEA or even AAA about the legal repercussions of unqualified DIY brake work- THEN get back to me.

*PSS> I'll do you the favor of not responding to ANY of your posts from here on out. I certainly don't want to feel responsible for your contributing to you putting NOT just yourself but OTHERS at risk!

Last edited by WopOnTour; 11-02-2003 at 10:54 PM..

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Old 11-02-2003, 11:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by WopOnTour
What I said was GET SOME QUALIFIED HELP!!
That was the objective for starting this thread in the first place. Thank you for your help!

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Old 11-03-2003, 10:26 AM   #18
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read this article on how to bleed brakes *the right way*
http://www.spswebpage.com/tech/index...8ba4d014f3d003

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Old 11-03-2003, 10:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 92saturnsl2
I did complete the job by bleeding all four sides, and the pedal height is fine again.

Let it died, he ALREADY bleed it the right way.

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Old 11-03-2003, 12:28 PM   #20
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Someones panties are in a bunch...




Anyway, instead of griping at you, I'll give you the best advice I can for next time. Get another person to help you. When bleeding your brakes, its just best to have another person to help (one on the screw, and one on the pedal). Properly bleeding your brakes takes time and patience. It also takes a lot of self control because when you hear that airy sucking sound coming from your engine compartment, you're gonna want to flip out because you forgot to top the fluid off. The air will come out...you just have to give it time.

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