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Old 03-22-2016, 11:00 AM   #1
dylank
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Default After brake job pedal goes to floor

In an effort to stop a sound coming from the front left of my car I replaced both of my front rotors, pads and driver side front caliper. I have done my brakes many times but never replaced a caliper before. Now when I pump my brake pedal pressure never builds up. It goes to the floor every time. I have pumped 100 times. The brakes work but slowly and I have to push it to the ground. What steps should I take to diagnose?

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Old 03-22-2016, 11:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

you need to bleed the air out of the new caliper.

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Old 03-22-2016, 11:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Either learn why brake systems are flushed periodically and bled to rid it of old brake fluid and diy or have it done at a brake shop.

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Old 03-22-2016, 11:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

I bled the new caliper but just watched a video where the person had the tube submerged below brake fluid. I assume I have just been sucking air back into the lines because I did not have the line submerged. Is this a fair conclusion?

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Old 03-22-2016, 11:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

If you don't have a vacuum pump and a oil separator --- the next best method is the tube and container method.

You need a helper ---

Put a 1/8 piece of rubber hose on the bleeder nipple - and have a open end wrench (10 mm if I recall) on the bleeder under the hose. Have the other end of the hose submerged in brake fluid in a container.

Have the helper pump the brake with the bleeder nipple closed - then have them hold the pedal to the floor, whilst you open the bleeder. The pedal will then go to the floor. Have them hold the pedal, while you close the bleeder.

Repeat, repeat, repeat..... ect.

You'll have air bubbling out of the hose, until there isn't any more air in the system -and you have full pedal when pumped - at which point you should be done....

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Old 03-22-2016, 12:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
If you don't have a vacuum pump and a oil separator --- the next best method is the tube and container method.

You need a helper ---

Put a 1/8 piece of rubber hose on the bleeder nipple - and have a open end wrench (10 mm if I recall) on the bleeder under the hose. Have the other end of the hose submerged in brake fluid in a container.

Have the helper pump the brake with the bleeder nipple closed - then have them hold the pedal to the floor, whilst you open the bleeder. The pedal will then go to the floor. Have them hold the pedal, while you close the bleeder.

Repeat, repeat, repeat..... ect.

You'll have air bubbling out of the hose, until there isn't any more air in the system -and you have full pedal when pumped - at which point you should be done....
That's the method I always use with just a few modifications:

.... Use a good closed end wrnech on the brake bleed screw. Position it prior to installing tigh fitting clear, bleed tubing...
....... use a schmear of grease at the tube to brake tit connection to keep any chance of air from getting in at that point. Extra around the base of the bleeder tit threads can't hurt, either.

..........THe end of the tubing is weighted to keep it below the level of old BF in the drain container. A bit of water in it at the start will air getting in when the tit is cracked open.

......... After making sure the MC is full and the bleeder is cracked a skosh,
pump the brakes 10 times in a row( ( don't drain the MC!!!)), top off MC, repeat2x more, close bleeder. THe bleeder is only opened and closed one time- at the beginning and at the end.
..... no helper used.

.... midway through the bleed, I'll check if there are any bubbles in the(clear) tubing, and if it's pushing new( clear) fluid through yet. THat observation determines if another round is needed on that particular corner.

...
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

I use to hate doing brake bleeds after line/master cylinder/caliper/drum cylinder replacements, and I decided to buy a reverse bleed kit. It makes for a one man job, and makes it easier than anything to get air out and completely flush your brakes. I guess they are available at Harbor Freight, but I got mine from Phoenix Systems some years ago.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/

...
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Don't forget to manually adjust the rear drum brakes after doing the fronts...the "automatic adjusters" only do so much and only work for about the first 100 miles from brand new.

...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

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Old 03-22-2016, 02:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

This drives me nuts!
What you have to do Dylan...is first: Gravity bleed.
Be sure your master cylinder is full.
Open the bleeder screw and allow fluid to flow out of the bleeder for around two minutes, once it appears.
Tighten the bleeder. Have an assistant SLOWLY pump the pedal 4-5 times, then Hold it down. Briefly open the bleeder, then close it. Do this 3-4 times, and you will have bled the caliper properly.
DO NOT use, pressure bleeders, Vacuum bleeders, or that stupid bottle method.
Do it properly the first time. The correct way. THAT IS the easy way.

...
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

So i got tubing and have bled the left front brake as this is where I did the work. It is a bit better but not even close to normal. I am guessing I need to bleed all 4. Is this correct? Or is something else wrong?

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Old 03-22-2016, 02:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Steve44,

I did not try this method. I just pumped until no more bubbles appeared. Think I should try again with this method?

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Old 03-22-2016, 02:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by billysvue View Post
A bit of water in it at the start will air getting in when the tit is cracked open..
Er, that's not right. It should read,

A bit of water in the drain container, at the start, will stop air from getting in when the tit is cracked open.

...
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor



So trying Steve's method this is what it looks like after 2 minutes. Is this normal? I am concerned something else is going on.

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Old 03-22-2016, 03:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

So I have done Steve's method and am getting the same results. Any ideas?

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Old 03-22-2016, 03:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

I am just gonna take it to brakes plus and have it bled. Not proud but man I am just so frustrated. At least I saved the money putting on new rotors, pads and caliper myself...

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Old 03-22-2016, 03:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
This drives me nuts!
What you have to do Dylan...is first: Gravity bleed.
Be sure your master cylinder is full.
Open the bleeder screw and allow fluid to flow out of the bleeder for around two minutes, once it appears.
Tighten the bleeder. Have an assistant SLOWLY pump the pedal 4-5 times, then Hold it down. Briefly open the bleeder, then close it. Do this 3-4 times, and you will have bled the caliper properly.
DO NOT use, pressure bleeders, Vacuum bleeders, or that stupid bottle method.
Do it properly the first time. The correct way. THAT IS the easy way.
I don't believe that will get air out of the system. Especially if it's in the caliper piston cavity. The air will simply occupy the highest points, and the fluid will run past.
...

I used to work for Borroughs Tool and Equipment - and we made a large number of essential tools for GM's dealerships (mostly Olds and Buick - but a fair number of Chevy.) (BT+E has been defunct for about 20 years)

One of the things we made was a vacuum system for bleeding brakes. They're now made by some other subsidiary of Kent Moore. Not cheap, but they worked well, and are pretty much the industry standard.

GM is known for being a bunch of cheapskates. If all they needed was a piece of hose to bleed brakes, they wouldn't have spent the money on the expensive stuff we built....

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Old 03-22-2016, 06:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

So.....

I took it to brakes plus. They spent an hour trying to bleed it. Watching them there were suddenly 4 people standing under my car talking, after 15 minutes of this they came in and told me that I installed a right handed caliper on the left hand side so the bleeder value is on the bottom and because air rises they cant bleed it properly. How a right handed caliper installed so perfectly on the left hand side is beyond me and how I missed it I don't know. It doesn't say left or right on the box. Guess I messed this one up. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to install the correct caliper and bleed it correctly.

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Old 03-22-2016, 06:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Looking at that enormous picture you can see that.

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Old 03-22-2016, 11:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylank View Post
So.....

I took it to brakes plus. They spent an hour trying to bleed it. Watching them there were suddenly 4 people standing under my car talking, after 15 minutes of this they came in and told me that I installed a right handed caliper on the left hand side so the bleeder value is on the bottom and because air rises they cant bleed it properly. How a right handed caliper installed so perfectly on the left hand side is beyond me and how I missed it I don't know. It doesn't say left or right on the box. Guess I messed this one up. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to install the correct caliper and bleed it correctly.
That's one way find out about about brakes when making assumptions........

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Old 03-23-2016, 01:10 AM   #20
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Default Re: After brake job pedal goes to floor

I too replaced worn out calipers front and rears.
Had some issues with bleeding the brakes went to the nearest shop Firestone and got it bleed, I was worried I had to bleed the master cylinder

All is good now

When I replaced the calipers I thought there where no markings on the boxes to tell you left or right, but if you look at the caliper where the banjo bolt goes in

there Stamped with the letters R or L on the cast iron as well as the rear calipers, I just matched the one i was taking off.

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