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Old 06-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #1
me.theuser
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1996 SL1
Default 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

1996 Saturn SL1 1.9 SOHC 123,000 on car < 100,000 JY engine

I recently bought a 96 saturn sl1 AT
with a bad engine + a used engine from the JY for $1200 total

New generic ECTS
New generic air intake temp sensor
New generic front 02 sensor
Used Engine

I just replaced the o2 sensor after codes p0133 and p1133
and it still comes on intermittently after about 8 cycles of running
help please!

Engine runs good not using oil/coolant 27 mpg city have yet to take it on the highway (have driven it 250+ miles)



--------INFO--------
-Codes old engine had-
p0133
p1133
pxxxx intake air temp sensor (forget the code)


So far I have replaced:

1.) IAT sensor

2.) The front 02 sensor p0133, p0113

3.) The ECTS because I figured that was why the old engine blew after they replaced the head (the old ECTS was cracked but good in the new engine but i figured at $10.00 I might as well do it)

4.) Engine (with engine from totaled 1996 sl1 with gauges)

The old engine had oil in the antifreeze and had been burning oil I suspect because there was a fine coating of oil in the engine compartment and in the line at the back of the trunk lid (it still ran and they had replaced the head)

Cleaned the hell out of the radiatior and hoses (hot water from the water heater dish soap and radiator flush to get all the oil out of the system)

So I drop the new engine in, re-use the exaust manifold,the intake manifold (new gaskets), evap canister purge solenoid, and oil press sensor (new engine used different connectors for both and i reused the PCV valve on the new engine it was clean looked new and rattled correctly)


start it up after clearing old codes, no new codes

Find the other reason for the blown head, heater core is leaking so I bypassed that for now, I don't feel like taking the dash apart after all that and its summer the radiator petcock started leaking and lost all my coolant sitting in the driveway overnight (it didn't leak after changing the engine only after I bypassed the heater core)
So I figured I will leave water in for a few more days till I do the heater core get any residual oil out then I will flush again and add coolant
(could this cause probs with it?)
I haven't heard the coolant fan I checked the relay and fan, both fine
temp gauge never gets past 1/2 (NORMAL?)


So on to the rest....
It runs fine I take it to the car wash the next day give it a good bath and lo and behold P0113 and P1113 I figured it was water getting into the connector so I used some RTV to seal it
then checked the wire no cracks or bare spots
has good ground through o2 sensor case


2 days later the light comes back and this time its not wet after about 8 start, run, off cycles

Ran sea foam

Next I cleaned the EGR,throttle body, IAC passages
Replaced platinums (AutoZn recommended them) with new non platinum ac-delco stock copper plugs (got that from here)



Ok so hopefully this is enough info and not too much

Ideas please.... at my wits end

THX in advance, will

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Old 06-30-2008, 11:35 PM   #2
me.theuser
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1996 SL1
Default Update 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

well since I haven't received a reply (no one know?)

tonight I cleaned the connection on the o2 sensor male and female sides
measured the voltage between the sensor case and ground (again)
it shows 1.5 mv potential between the two
The battery measures 11.89 volts

Also I figured out it isn't the cycles that turns it on (or at least it seems)
It is getting up to 50-60 mph for a certain amount of time (approx 2-3 mins) then the check engine light turns on
still codes P0133 and P1133

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Old 07-01-2008, 12:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

You cannot seal an oxygen sensor connector with RTV-it needs to be vented to obtain outside air to compare with the exhaust stream.

from the SL1 service manual:
The oxygen sensor wiring and connections should be checked if any of these DTCs are set because corrosion or loose connections could cause these DTCs to set.
The most likely cause of setting any of these DTCs is contamination. This contamination could be caused by fuel, improper use of RTV sealant, engine oil, or coolant contamination.
The source of contamination should be identified and corrected before replacing the sensor.

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Old 07-01-2008, 04:13 AM   #4
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

well if you can't fix stupid maybe you can read?
i said i filled the ends of the connector with rtv sealant to keep water from the connector or does good WATER and AIR contact help there too?
I appreciate a reply but don't act as if I'm stupid

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:02 AM   #5
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

Also i was thinking after I went back to bed
since when does an o2 sensor measure atmospheric oxygen content?
It isn't a comparator, now I may be wrong but its funny I have never seen an oxygen sensor with louvers or openings on the case except on the tip

last I checked an oxygen sensor worked by a chemical reaction and heat to make voltage that varies by the amount of oxygen in the exhaust

you are obviously right you can't fix stupid clearly, you tried it on yourself.

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Old 07-01-2008, 12:13 PM   #6
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1997 SW2
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

Well me.theuser, it seems that nobody has welcomed you to the forum.

Can't help with fixing stupid.

Can't tell you what your problem is.

If you want to know how an O2 sensor works, try reading the following:

http://www.12v.org/engine/index.php?section=hw&sm=o2

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Old 07-02-2008, 11:31 AM   #7
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

so there is a hole or louver that gathers outside air but still not the connector that the wire goes through and as far as not getting a decent answer i guess i'll just not worry about it

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Old 07-02-2008, 06:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

BTW, that's my sig, I didn't call you stupid. Thank you so much for your insults, though.

Don't ask for help if you don't want to listen. Have a nice day.

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Old 07-02-2008, 08:39 PM   #9
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

sorry I didn't realize that was your postamble
anyways i put it in the connector not on the sensor its self and it doesn't have a vent tube going through the wire but i did thank you for a reply

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Old 07-06-2008, 12:10 AM   #10
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

ok a little more info
car has used about a quarter of a qt of oil in 600-800 miles no smoke
rings? maybe this would cause that code?
though the old engine had the code and wouldn't it cause it to throw a code about running too rich if it was burning oil?

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Old 07-06-2008, 09:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

The oil consumption is not your problem. From reading through the chain it seems that you are dealing with a P0133 and P1133, is this correct? Also, you have a BOSH generic, you put the connector on it, el-cheapo O2 sensor installed.

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Old 07-06-2008, 12:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by me.theuser View Post
..I just replaced the o2 sensor after codes p0133 and p1133

--------INFO--------
-Codes old engine had-
p0133
p1133
pxxxx intake air temp sensor (forget the code)


2.) The front 02 sensor p0133, p0113

3.) The ECTS because I figured that was why the old engine blew after they replaced the head (the old ECTS was cracked but good in the new engine but i figured at $10.00 I might as well do it)

So on to the rest....
It runs fine I take it to the car wash the next day give it a good bath and lo and behold P0113 and P1113 .....
It seems that there are several codes but which ones are the correct/valid ones? All of them or is there an error somewhere?
  • P0113
  • P0133
  • P1113
  • P1133

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Old 07-06-2008, 08:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

To "me.theuser"
-- It is customary to 'bathe"/envelope electrical connections in various compounds for various reasons, sometimes including RTV silicone sealant.

Much of the commercially available RTV generates/exudes an acidic material when it 'sets up'. I think most Permatex , and the GE Silicone I are in this class. [The GE Silicone II does not have any acidic residue]. There is a remote chance that a little acid on the O2 connector 'pins' is a bad idea -- it might promote corrosion and/or some thermocouple/galvanic action which just might be problemmatic at the elevated temps involved {really dunno, wanted to mention}.

Silicone dielectric grease {Permatex sells a nice tube!} is pretty much inert/nonreactive , and widely used in connectors Not because it promotes connections {as noted , it is an insulator} , but because it is very good at excluding water (which is desirable since water is corrosive , particularly if salt is dissolved therein).

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Old 07-06-2008, 09:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

RTV anywhere in the vicinity of the O2 sensor will contaminate it unless it is specifically marked as "Sensor Safe". The goofy sensor plug is water proof so a dielectric grease is not necessary.

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Old 07-07-2008, 07:05 AM   #15
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1996 SL1
Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

Actually I had used some rtv on the old connector because it was only surfacing after water was near the car which was just a coincidence

I went to the junk yard and bought a clean o2 sensor connector and replaced it from the firewall to the o2 sensor and it didn't do any good

Well after tiring of not finding the problem I took the o2 sensor back to AZ and told them the codes and how the new sensor was still bringing up codes

The guy tried telling me it was running rich or lean and I said well why are there no other codes?

Then he said it could be either the ECM or the catalytic converter being clogged

I told him well I'm not throwing parts at the problem until it goes away and if I'm going to then give me a new o2 sensor first, he did now the problem is gone

So chalk this one up to a bad generic 02 sensor or one that was out of spec enough to cause a problem

still my budget would rather me buy generic even though talk about a headache


And thx for the answers guys

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Old 07-10-2008, 10:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

glad you got it fixed and sorry I was bi*chy b4...think I was MANstruating or something.

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Old 07-11-2008, 09:35 AM   #17
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Thumbs Up Re: 96 sl1 P0133 and p1133 after new o2 sensor

lmao i have those days and sorry again for '*****ing' back didn't realize it was your postamble

I may not be the best but i'm pretty handy with anything mechanical or electronic I was just always told to suspect the new parts last and was going through the other causes first.
though its been a week so far and no code now! (knock on REAL wood)

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