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Old 02-05-2016, 11:38 PM   #261
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1999 SW2
1992 SL2
Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2Sick View Post
I've never paid attention to starters, I've always swapped them around without a second thought. If you have one I'd just give it a go first see if fits/works/whatever. Worst case go buy one.
thanks for the reply OldNuc informed me they should swap out across all years on the s series
in the past the starters were not an easy task for me - have a heck of a time getting my hands up in there....so i wanted to avoid more work than necessary
appreciate your reply!

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Old 02-06-2016, 01:29 AM   #262
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

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thanks for the reply OldNuc informed me they should swap out across all years on the s series
in the past the starters were not an easy task for me - have a heck of a time getting my hands up in there....so i wanted to avoid more work than necessary
appreciate your reply!
The early starters have more bracing than the later ones...think they did away with it around '94/'95. Bolt pattern & spacing/offset is the same '91-'02 so they're all interchangeable.

...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

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Old 02-06-2016, 01:37 AM   #263
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

The early GM(Saturn) starter just followed the standard GM mounting design. Almost all of the GM starters are designed to have a rear mount up to the arrival of the PMGR designs. On most cars and trucks the rear mount went away with the first replacement starter.

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Old 02-25-2016, 10:13 PM   #264
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Question Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Looking at a replacement engine for a 2001 sc2 with a rod hanging out side of block. Found a 2000 sl2 with a "good" motor as am told in local yard. Car owner wanted to come back to yard to remove engine as he had major work done on it before he was broadsided 200 miles from home.

I notice it doesn't have secondary air pump to exhaust manifold.
So now what motor is in it?
What will give me tell tale signs to ID this engine from outside? I have read here, Gen 3 heads have small exhaust ports and roller rockers.
Is it possible to run a gen2 in a gen3 car?
Will a non Air system exhaust manifold bolt up to an 3rd Gen Air System head?
Could it be as simple as swapping exhaust manifolds, to switch it back to Air system?
thanks in advance.

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Old 02-25-2016, 10:38 PM   #265
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by swcoupe View Post
Looking at a replacement engine for a 2001 sc2 with a rod hanging out side of block. Found a 2000 sl2 with a "good" motor as am told in local yard. Car owner wanted to come back to yard to remove engine as he had major work done on it before he was broadsided 200 miles from home.

I notice it doesn't have secondary air pump to exhaust manifold.
So now what motor is in it? Look on the engine side of the bell housing flange for the numbers, they look like this: http://imgur.com/k8Ca5 e\nine is on left. Clean off flange and rub with a wide tip magic marker. Both numbers in the pix are identical. Get a good clear set of pix and I will decode them fr you, they are NOT vin numbers. This shows the location below the ignition module: http://imgur.com/nrF02
What will give me tell tale signs to ID this engine from outside? I have read here, Gen 3 heads have small exhaust ports and roller rockers. Narrow head is the big clue and plastic intake.
Is it possible to run a gen2 in a gen3 car? Yes.
Will a non Air system exhaust manifold bolt up to an 3rd Gen Air System head? Yes but the 9 bolt exhaust manifold is a bit rare. The 00 model cars built in 99 with FED emisions may not have the AIR system.
Could it be as simple as swapping exhaust manifolds, to switch it back to Air system? Probably not as easy as it looks.
thanks in advance.
Get good in focus pix of those numbers.

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Old 02-25-2016, 11:07 PM   #266
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Thumbs Up Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Get good in focus pix of those numbers.
Thanks so much for the detailed reply!! I'll give it a careful inspection and report back after another trip to the yard.

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Old 02-25-2016, 11:40 PM   #267
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

There is a year in that series of letters and numbers, in the example it is the W which is 8WZ in the series and the W represents 98 which is the engine year. Once you run out of letters it becomes 1, 2.

W=98
X=99
Z=00
1=01
2=02

The N is 92 so you have to pay attention to orientation.

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Old 02-26-2016, 06:49 PM   #268
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
There is a year in that series of letters and numbers, in the example it is the W which is 8WZ in the series and the W represents 98 which is the engine year. Once you run out of letters it becomes 1, 2.

W=98
X=99
Z=00
1=01
2=02

The N is 92 so you have to pay attention to orientation.
So made it back from the wrecking yard. Car had window sticker in glove box, sold 6/2000, SL2, it was a narrow head, with 9 bolt manifold w/o air.
Engine and Transmission numbers match - 8YZ256415
http ://imgur.com/G6V0Ldu
http ://imgur.com/G6V0Ldu Trans
http ://imgur.com/GU3jd6a motor
This is very hard to get a good image and then with saving the file and loosing clarity, trust me though they did match.

http ://imgur.com/n8Lhfgt 2000 DOHC w/o Air 9 bolt Exhaust Manifold
http ://imgur.com/hyGPRme Saturn 2000 SL2 Window Sticker

http ://imgur.com/v2grfJI Broader view of engine 2000 DOHC w/o air

Will the head have the slots for Air Exhaust Manifold?
What will I do with the circuits of 2001 SC2 that plug into aux air components?
SC2 01 bad motor 81z254974 mated to 82Z223638 transmission

Thanks Again

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Old 02-26-2016, 07:03 PM   #269
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Get the PCM from the car with that engine in it. Check that ABS, A/C, power locks, and cruise all match and they should. Transmission has to match as well. Head should work with your air injection as you will have to use the manifold that fits the remainder of your exhaust. Be careful with the plastic intake as they break easily. The 2000 vintage PCM does not have AIR coding and if the accessories and transmission all match then it is almost a plug and play. You will have to run the security reset if you swap the PCM.

Do you have a manual or automatic? The trans must match. I can not read the sticker but all the rest should match as the gen-3 came with all options in most cases. In a pinch you can fool the air injection to function.

Last edited by OldNuc; 02-26-2016 at 07:09 PM..

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Old 02-26-2016, 07:21 PM   #270
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

The head should have the air injection ports but they may/will be plugged with carbon so when you swap the manifolds you get to clean them out. Easier to do now instead of later.

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Old 02-26-2016, 07:29 PM   #271
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Trans type number is located on the top part of the bell housing centered between the top 2 mounting studs. Those bell housing numbers are a modified VIN ID number and only tell what engine was originally mated to the trans.

http://imgur.com/dwb6a WMP3xxxx is a 98 performance manual trans which is mated to a DOHC engine. Manual is MP23 and auto is MP7 for the DOHC and 1st letter position is the year code.

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Old 02-26-2016, 08:39 PM   #272
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Get the PCM from the car with that engine in it. Check that ABS, A/C, power locks, and cruise all match and they should. Transmission has to match as well. Head should work with your air injection as you will have to use the manifold that fits the remainder of your exhaust. Be careful with the plastic intake as they break easily. The 2000 vintage PCM does not have AIR coding and if the accessories and transmission all match then it is almost a plug and play. You will have to run the security reset if you swap the PCM.

Do you have a manual or automatic? The trans must match. I can not read the sticker but all the rest should match as the gen-3 came with all options in most cases. In a pinch you can fool the air injection to function.
Sadly I have a different transmission, mine 01 SC2 is manual, donor from yard is 00 SL2 automatic. What complications does that create?

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Old 02-26-2016, 08:45 PM   #273
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The head should have the air injection ports but they may/will be plugged with carbon so when you swap the manifolds you get to clean them out. Easier to do now instead of later.
This I can do easy enough. As broad as the exhaust manifold is on the head, if the head has small ports, as would be expected, they may be covered over by a gasket.
Would there be slight performance boost with the larger exhaust manifold?
Any advantage to modify downstream exhaust to match 00 Big manifold?

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Old 02-26-2016, 08:49 PM   #274
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Trans type number is located on the top part of the bell housing centered between the top 2 mounting studs. Those bell housing numbers are a modified VIN ID number and only tell what engine was originally mated to the trans.

http: //imgur.com/dwb6a WMP3xxxx is a 98 performance manual trans which is mated to a DOHC engine. Manual is MP23 and auto is MP7 for the DOHC and 1st letter position is the year code.
Ok, thanks for clarifying transmission stamped number below the coils.

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Old 02-26-2016, 09:31 PM   #275
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

That is why I suggested pictures as there are all kinds of numbers on these parts and you are interested in exactly 2, engine ID and transmission type ID the rest are interesting to useless depending. Anyway you should be on your way now. Try to get this swap done without changing any of the powertrain control electronics, ECU, BCM, or passlock module. Changing any of these just opens up a huge can of worms.

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Old 02-26-2016, 10:04 PM   #276
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Get the PCM from the car with that engine in it. Check that ABS, A/C, power locks, and cruise all match and they should. Transmission has to match as well. Head should work with your air injection as you will have to use the manifold that fits the remainder of your exhaust. Be careful with the plastic intake as they break easily. The 2000 vintage PCM does not have AIR coding and if the accessories and transmission all match then it is almost a plug and play. You will have to run the security reset if you swap the PCM.

Do you have a manual or automatic? The trans must match. I can not read the sticker but all the rest should match as the gen-3 came with all options in most cases. In a pinch you can fool the air injection to function.
Thanks OldNuc for the caution on the plastic intake. I have worked only on Gen 2 cars, so, I will give the intake a careful inspection, once cradle is dropped and engine is out for inspections.
If I had to, I suppose I could go the automatic route, really, really, would rather keep the 5 speed.

How about I trade out the exhaust manifold then I should be good to go with my PCM and not the donor one.

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Old 02-26-2016, 10:19 PM   #277
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by swcoupe View Post
Thanks OldNuc for the caution on the plastic intake. I have worked only on Gen 2 cars, so, I will give the intake a careful inspection, once cradle is dropped and engine is out for inspections.
If I had to, I suppose I could go the automatic route, really, really, would rather keep the 5 speed.

How about I trade out the exhaust manifold then I should be good to go with my PCM and not the donor one.
That is the way to go. The head on the new motor should have air ports but they wil be carbon clogged and require cleaning which is a nasty job with engine in the car but easier when it is out. Be sure air will pass into all exhaust ports, test and verify. Do not swap any control electronics, use what is on your engine now as it was working. Do understand that the 2 water tubes on the intake are notorious for breaking of and this repair part will fix it and should be installed now. DORMAN 902100 go to RockAuto and do a part number search, $35.00 and fixed. The original cost about 80.00 and their website is down. Age and antifreeze cause teh plastic manifold water tubes to crumble so replace them now.

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Old 02-26-2016, 10:22 PM   #278
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
That is why I suggested pictures as there are all kinds of numbers on these parts and you are interested in exactly 2, engine ID and transmission type ID the rest are interesting to useless depending. Anyway you should be on your way now. Try to get this swap done without changing any of the powertrain control electronics, ECU, BCM, or passlock module. Changing any of these just opens up a huge can of worms.
I'll double check the manual transmission number that it was for a DOHC and not SOHC as the person I go the SC2 from had just changed the transmission and clutch, before he blew the engine.

So looks like the swap is good to go, if I keep my electronics and change out exhaust manifold, making sure the carbon is cleaned out of the ports for secondary air pump.

If I were to keep the No secondary air pump exhaust, I would need to keep automatic, or find a rare 2000 PCM with/out air and manual transmission. This would keep from having error codes and performance problems from the computer.

Sure seems like the larger Exhaust manifold of the 00 w/o air pump, would be a benefit to help the engine breath.

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Old 02-26-2016, 10:38 PM   #279
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by swcoupe View Post
I'll double check the manual transmission number that it was for a DOHC and not SOHC as the person I go the SC2 from had just changed the transmission and clutch, before he blew the engine.

So looks like the swap is good to go, if I keep my electronics and change out exhaust manifold, making sure the carbon is cleaned out of the ports for secondary air pump.
<---Yes, correct.

If I were to keep the No secondary air pump exhaust, I would need to keep automatic, or find a rare 2000 PCM with/out air and manual transmission. This would keep from having error codes and performance problems from the computer.

Sure seems like the larger Exhaust manifold of the 00 w/o air pump, would be a benefit to help the engine breath.
Exhaust is not an issue as far as that engine is concerned. Just use the existing exhaust and check the trans number so if that is a problem it can be dealt with now instead of later.

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Old 02-26-2016, 10:43 PM   #280
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Default Re: S-Series Swap Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
That is the way to go. The head on the new motor should have air ports but they wil be carbon clogged and require cleaning which is a nasty job with engine in the car but easier when it is out. Be sure air will pass into all exhaust ports, test and verify. Do not swap any control electronics, use what is on your engine now as it was working. Do understand that the 2 water tubes on the intake are notorious for breaking of and this repair part will fix it and should be installed now. DORMAN 902100 go to RockAuto and do a part number search, $35.00 and fixed. The original cost about 80.00 and their website is down. Age and antifreeze cause teh plastic manifold water tubes to crumble so replace them now.
Am so great full for your advice, I will address the intake as you have generously suggested. I have seen videos on the cleaning of the exhaust carbon so will be prepared for that as well.
The new to me 01 sc2, is saturn #5 for us, first with a sunroof, Leather seats, and bright and shining paint. Here paint clear coat goes fast in sw sun, but minimal rust is our saving grace on Saturns.

Motor swap then restore sunroof to operation. Thanks so much OldNuc!!!

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