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Old 12-19-2019, 07:43 PM   #1
Ricketts
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Default 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Hey everyone - goofy question for the day - I have always had a rattling sound around 1700 to 2000 rpm under load and to determine if it was something in the serpentine belt array or timing chain slack, about a year ago I pulled the serpentine belt off and drove it for about a minute. The noise went away when I took off the belt, but I am thinking I want to try the test again, but for a longer period of time.

I am curious - I want to jury-rig a 12vdc motor of a decent size, or maybe a battery operated drill, with a socket shaft and socket to fit the water pump pulley nut during the longer test to keep the engine from overheating. I'll spend some time to rig up a frame to keep it aligned with the pulley nut during the test.

Might sound crazy but I am curious if anyone has an idea of what rpm I should spin the pump and how much of a load the pump would be, to determine the torque requirements of the 12vdc motor or drill.

At the time of my original test I found the power steering pump might be making the noise I heard. So something else I thought was I could use this rig to spin each individual pulley one at a time, with the belt and engine off, to see which portion is causing the noise.

Thanks for any ideas...things that pop into my head on cold winter nights haha
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

It is easy enough to figure out the pump rpm, just measure the diameter of the crank pulley and the diameter of whatever pulley you are trying to drive. For instance: I'm guessing the crank is 7" and the WP is 5". So, at an engine speed of 2500 rpm the WP would be turning 7/5 x 2500 = 3500 rpm.

That is your first problem, cordless drills are rarely capable of over 2000 rpm.

You mentioned a "pulley nut", but I recall that there are three screws on the WP pulley; with none concentric to the WP shaft suitable to use as a drive.

Then, of course, space is quite limited "in front" of the WP, so scabbing a motor there would be tough. And, that is not worrying about engine movement in its mounts...

If I was intent on doing such tests, I would look to mount the electric motor in place of one of the accessories; like swing the A/C compressor out of the way and put the electric motor there.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Thanks BillR, in all honesty I haven't looked at the pulley yet - I was thinking it was a central nut but you are most likely correct. That would be a deal breaker. More me sitting here on a cold winter's night thinking about how to Macgyver the test. I really just want to run the belt off test for a few minutes, like 5 to 10 mins, but knowing that is far too long to do without overheating the engine. Plus I was thinking I could spin each pulley by this method, and listen to the noise while sitting in the cabin, as I know intimately what the noise sounds like.

Thanks!
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Is the drive belt longer and letting the tensioner bang against its own end stop? This would be seen and felt as a loose belt when depressed with fingers. Belt flopping with engine idling. Some members found replacement idler pulleys with smaller diameters - this makes the original belt loose and a shorter belt is needed.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

You could probably rig up a spare radiator fan motor to it. The stock fan motor is pretty powerful and it shouldn't take that much power to run the WP, alternator and PS pump individually.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

My opinion: This is an exercise in folly. If the noise is coming from the serpentine system, it's one of the components.... examine them, replace what's broken or questionable. If you don't find it there, it's either not there, or isn't bad enough to worry about it yet.

Buy a mechanics stethoscope and poke around, too. The sound may be detectable at idle that way.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

^agree.
If itís just something under the hood, you can ignore it until itís too loud to ignore.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

One man's folly is another man's hobby.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Not so goofy.

Mercedes Benz used an electric pump to circulate coolant through the heater core rather than run it off the water pump.

Reason - so as to not pump hot coolant in the car on hot days, and to not waste horsepower doing unnecessary work.
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
Not so goofy.

Mercedes Benz used an electric pump to circulate coolant through the heater core rather than run it off the water pump.

Reason - so as to not pump hot coolant in the car on hot days, and to not waste horsepower doing unnecessary work.
That has nothing to do with what's going on here.
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

As a side note, early L300's used an auxiliary coolant pump, between engine and heater core. Most likely to ensure coolant flow. Coolant flows thru heater cores without a shutoff valve. A service bulletin from GM informs dealers to remove these pumps due to premature failure (running when engine's running) as a dead pump wouldn't let coolant flow resulting in loss of heating in cold weather. My '03 L300 doesn't have this pump even though the service manual shows it drawings and wiring diagrams. I have heat whenever I need it. One member still had the pump and it died, killing his heater until it was removed.

I agree, it's folly to experiment with an electric water pump just to leave the drive belt off to determine noise issues when there are definite methods to determine where engine noise is emanating from.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
As a side note, early L300's used an auxiliary coolant pump, between engine and heater core. Most likely to ensure coolant flow. Coolant flows thru heater cores without a shutoff valve. A service bulletin from GM informs dealers to remove these pumps due to premature failure (running when engine's running) as a dead pump wouldn't let coolant flow resulting in loss of heating in cold weather. My '03 L300 doesn't have this pump even though the service manual shows it drawings and wiring diagrams. I have heat whenever I need it. One member still had the pump and it died, killing his heater until it was removed.

I agree, it's folly to experiment with an electric water pump just to leave the drive belt off to determine noise issues when there are definite methods to determine where engine noise is emanating from.
y nut during the test.

Might sound crazy but I am curious if anyone has an idea of what rpm I should spin the pump and how much of a load the pump wo
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
Not so goofy.

Mercedes Benz used an electric pump to circulate coolant through the heater core rather than run it off the water pump.

Reason - so as to not pump hot coolant in the car on hot days, and to not waste horsepower doing unnecessary work.
run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.opower doing unnecessary work.[/QUOTE]

run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not pump hot cool as to not pump hot cool
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
One man's folly is another man's hobby.
power doing unnecessary work.[/QUOTE]

run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not pump hot coolpower doing unnecessary work.[/QUOTE]

run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not
run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not pump hot coolpower doing unnecessary work.[/QUOTE]pump hot cothe water pump.o as to not
run it off the wato as to not pump ol

Last edited by chrisbarett; 12-20-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
One man's folly is another man's hobby.
wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not pump hot coolpower doing unnecessary work.[/QUOTE]

run it off the wato as to not pump hot coolun it off the water pump.
run it off the water pump.o as to not
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricketts View Post
Thanks BillR, in all honesty I haven't looked at the pulley yet - I was thinking it was a central nut but you are most likely correct. That would be a deal breaker. More me sitting here on a cold winter's night thinking about how to Macgyver the test. I really just want to run the belt off test for a few minutes, like 5 to 10 mins, but knowing that is far too long to do without overheating the engine. Plus I was thinking I could spin each pulley by this method, and listen to the noise while sitting in the cabin, as I know intimately what the noise sounds like.

Thanks!

I am curious - I want to jury-rig a 12vdc motor of a decent size, or maybe a battery operated drill, with a socket shaft and socket to fit the water pump pulley nut during the longer test to keep the engine from overheating. I'll spend some time to rig up a frame to keep it aligned with the pulley nut during the test.

Might sound crazy but I am curious if anyone has an idea of what rpm I should spin the pump and how much of a load the pump would be, to determine the torque requirements of the 12vdc motor or drill.

At the time of my original test I found the power steering pump might be making the noise I heard. So something else I thought was I could use this rig to spin each individual pulley one at a time, with the belt and engine off, to see which portion is causing the noise.
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpdraft View Post
^agree.
If itís just something under the hood, you can ignore it until itís too loud to ignore.
;2337785]^agree.
If itís just something under the hood, you can ignore it until i;2337785]^agree.
If itís just something under the hood, you can ignore it until i
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

[QUOTE=onlinebiker;2337787]Not so goofy.

Mercedes Benz used an electric pump to circulate coolant through the heater core rathore ratherBenz used an electric pump to circulate coolant throughBenz used an electric pump to circulate coolant through vore rather er
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricketts View Post
Hey everyone - goofy question for the day - I have always had a rattling sound around 1700 to 2000 rpm under load and to determine if it was something in the serpentine belt array or timing chain slack, about a year ago I pulled the serpentine belt off and drove it for about a minute. The noise went away when I took off the belt, but I am thinking I want to try the test again, but for a longer period of time.

I am curious - I want to jury-rig a 12vdc motor of a decent size, or maybe a battery operated drill, with a socket shaft and socket to fit the water pump pulley nut during the longer test to keep the engine from overheating. I'll spend some time to rig up a frame to keep it aligned with the pulley nut during the test.

Might sound crazy but I am curious if anyone has an idea of what rpm I should spin the pump and how much of a load the pump would be, to determine the torque requirements of the 12vdc motor or drill.

At the time of my original test I found the power steering pump might be making the noise I heard. So something else I thought was I could use this rig to spin each individual pulley one at a time, with the belt and engine off, to see which portion is causing the noise.

Thanks for any ideas...things that pop into my head on cold winter nights haha
mp
Hey everyone - goofy question for the day - I have always had a rattling sound around 1700 to 2000 rpm under load and to determine if it was something in the serpentine belt array or timing chain slack, about a year ago I pulled the serpentine belt off and drove it for about a minute. The noise went away when I took off the belt, but I am thinking I want to try the test again, but for a longer period of time.

I am curious - I want to jury-rig a 12vdc motor of a decent size, or maybe a battery operated drill, with a socket shaft and socket to fit the water pump pulley nut during the longer test to keep the engine from overheating. I'll spend some time to rig up a frame to keep it aligned with the pulley nut during the test.
mp
Hey everyone - goofy question for the day - I have always had a rattling sound around 1700 to 2000 rpm under load and to determine if it was something in the serpentine belt array or timing chain slack, about a year ago I pulled the serpentine belt off and drove it for about a minute. The noise went away when I took off the belt, but I am thinking I want to try the test again, but for a longer period of time.

I am curious - I want to jury-rig a 12vdc motor of a decent size, or maybe a battery operated drill, with a socket shaft and socket to fit the water pump pulley nut during the longer test to keep the engine from overheating. I'll spend some time to rig up a frame to keep it aligned with the pulley nut during the test.
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: 12vdc rig to drive water pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454cid View Post
My opinion: This is an exercise in folly. If the noise is coming from the serpentine system, it's one of the components.... examine them, replace what's broken or questionable. If you don't find it there, it's either not there, or isn't bad enough to worry about it yet.

Buy a mechanics stethoscope and poke around, too. The sound may be detectable at idle that way.
is coming from the serpentine system, it's one of the components.... examine them, replace what's broken or questionable. If you don't find it there, it's either not there, or isn't bad enough to worry about it yet.is coming from the serpentine system, it's one of the components.... examine them, replace what's broken or questionable. If you don't find it there, it's either not there, or isn't bad enough to worry about it yet.
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