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Old 03-30-2020, 03:01 PM   #21
cbizzme
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1994 SL2
Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Yes after cel flashes 12 and 11 code it switches to the red over temp light and flashes 56 prior to driving and adds 15 and 55 on top of that. There are no non-trans related codes.

Any idea how 12v shows up at trans? Is there another source of amperage other than the 10 pins? Or should I just look at 10 pins for 14.6v or 12.5 idling or key off?

If thereís some other feed maybe itís intermittent. I dried off and sprayed and hair dryer to the 10 pin. Itís clean and no new atf appears to be coming in since the new vb was installed.

Looking up trans code 15. Itís not on that list...
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Trans 15 is on my list, I suppose the one in that link isn't quite perfect.

The 12V for the five solenoids comes in on that 10-pin connector, but it is supplied to the connector through the fuel pump relay; that is why the engine/pump has to be running to check it. The FP relay has to be activated. Do you need the pin-out of that 10-pin connector? It has been posted here many times, but I can do it again...
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Iím sure I can find the pin out. What is code 15?
Iíll go out and look at the pcm first. I have a feeling thatís where Iím gonna find the issue. Ill check voltages after. Can I get a voltage in any slot on the connector with it unplugged and the engine running. I assume itís either 0v or 14.6 or whatever the running voltage is.

14.6 is high side of normal. Iíve read these are pretty voltage sensitive but was thinking more to the low side?
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Trans 15: "Hot Lamp Illuminated" (a Flag, not a Code)

Engine 15: "ECT Circuit -- Temperature Out of Range Low"

FYI: I don't know if that means the temp is low, or the sensor voltage/resistance reading is low (which would be high temp)

Are you asking about voltage on the trans 10-pin connector? Pins A, C, E, G, and J of the harness side should have "12V" (13-15, actually) when the engine is running. The harness can be disconnected for this, but you should connect a load resistor (10 ohms, or so) between the pin being tested and chassis ground.

The other five harness pins (B, D, F, H, and K) have to be checked with the harness connected. Each should be 12V when the solenoid it controls is not being activated, and then drop to near-zero volts when the solenoid is activated. You gotta drive the car and read the voltage though the various shifts to see what's going on with those pins.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

So Iím looking under the dash and I see what I believe is the pcm. It has an aluminum heat sink full size associated with it? There is another smaller box just outboard of it with one large multi pin connector associated and a black and red powef wire connector. In the pcm the forwardmost connector on the side closest to the firewall there is a pin like a paper clip with plastic at one end that says ES-1 on that seems be hanging in there loose but wedged in. That looks suspicious to me Lomť whoever changed the pcm couldnít get it to fit right somehow and wedged this pin in to help create contact where something was loose.

The fact that this trans issue has always been a completely on and fine or off manual limp mode leads me to believe itís gonna be an open connection somewhere maybe even one wire or a malfunction internal to the pcm. I have every indication to believe the trans was always fine now, including the vb. Any thoughts? Iím gonna pull the neg battery cable and start investigating the connectors on the pcm. First Iím going to wedge that clip in there tighter on the motion it might create the connection that has gradually loosened due to that clip slowly backing out.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Everything looks clean. Clips are a pain, plastic ears falling off. Only got one connector off at all, didnít break anything. No signs of pin or pocket issues or burns. Pulled both 5 amp pcm fuses underhood. They looked fine. Reinstalled. What are PCM 1 or I and PCM B?
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:57 PM   #27
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

One of those PCM feeds is "always hot" to keep the memory settings alive; and the other is switched on by the ignition switch when you want to operate the engine. I think the PCM 1 is the switched one, but not certain on that. It should be easy to check with a voltmeter.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Unless a member has better info with snapshots, here's one source of info; http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/index.html. Scroll down to the bottom of the page under Specifications/Technical Data . Click;
Harness Connector Faces, PCM - J1 Pinouts, PCM - J2 Pinouts or PCM - J3 Pinouts.

This problem may be pcm related (an incorrect replacement or misconnection somewhere).
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Hell of a time pulling the rearmost connector without feeling like I was gonna break something. All pins and sockets look fine to me. So here it is, I can tell itís junk yard because it has 94 Saturn painted on it by someone an 78 and 3884. The factory sticker says

21022768. 21022423
PERF-AUTO-CAL SERVICE NO.

Then it has 16 digits associated with barcode below.

So perf auto cal prob means Dohc auto trans right?

Again this thing either worked fine in all ways with no cel or anything or cel after 60 seconds from start if the code already exists or came on later while driving. When it did the trans always went to same mode. 3rd gear only forward and reverse no TCC and high line pressure forward and reverse. The only way it would revert back to normal once on was for me to shut down and restart the engine. At least 50% of time Iíd restart it would be fine and could stay fine for 30-60 min through next shutdown. Longest Iíve driven the is probably 45-60 min.

Wanted to ask, on this single bolt holding the 10 pin to the vb connector on the trans, what is the torque spec on that? Iím nearly certain thatís not the issue but who knows. It doesnít seem to bottom out or seat anywhere just kinda floats on that seal or?

A quirk I noticed if I restart the engine in neutral the overtemp light stays on even if engine is at normal op temp well before fan kicks on. I think that ot light is also low coolant light? Coolant level is fine. Tried several times... start in park ot light unlit, neutral ot light from beginning. Any ideas on that? I doubt itís related but found it odd.

Safe to assume the nearby box is the ABS computer? Thatís the one I broke some of the plastic ears on. I think it will be fine.
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:52 PM   #30
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Yes on the ABS module being alongside the PCM; at least, that is the way it was on my '95.

My recollection is that the screw on the 10-pin connector goes in with very light torque but bottoms out firmly. You should be able to feel a definite stop. Use only something like a nut-driver to tighten that; you really don't want to add to your woes by stripping the thread.

You probably need to get a voltmeter wired into the 12V supply to one of the solenoids so you can check that 12V supply while the problem is happening. This is an "intermittent" problem, correct? You gotta catch it in the act...
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:13 PM   #31
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

It was intermittent for a while now itís in totality. I tightened it with a thumb wheel, def not too tight but Iíll make sure it bottoms. Itís dark but Iíll go throw pcm back in and tighten 10 pin carefully till it bottoms. My guess is Iíll be removing and swapping the pcm for a refurb rather than a junkyard piece. Is there any sort of product every used on pins and connectors other than compressed air? They look perfect but I suppose there could be an issue.

Iíll check for voltage at the 10 pin running but looking for voltage while connected is beyond my experience level with a break out box or what not. Iíd prob set this all up for an auto electric guy and let them do the final.

The FET driver code I suppose could be a wire open in all this mess somewhere but sounds more like some sort of internal failure to me.
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

In looking really closely at the pins on the J3 connector I see what looks like it could be a small band of corrosion where the pins are gripped by the sockets. I donít see this same band on the J1 or J2 non-trans related connectors. Anyone ever see this or have a pcm laying around you can inspect? Iím not an electrical guy or familiar with these or similar connector types. On a hunch the problem might be associated anyone know if a tool or best method to clean these pins?

On edit itís harder to see on pins on the dark plastic connectors prob because the plastic is less of a contrast in color around it, but still curious about cleaning these.

Last edited by cbizzme; 04-02-2020 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:17 AM   #33
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Gold plated terminals are used on very tiny connections less than the width of a hair. The remainder of electronic pins and sockets are either brass or brass plated. Salt corrodes brass but cleaning with a solvent like Deoxit without scraping corrosion off should help. A brass bristle parts brush can be used to scrub pins without damage. Be aware, male pins are easy to examine, female sockets are more difficult to examine. In general, physical connections using metal automatically scrape against each other (male/female configurations) just by connecting, disconnecting and reconnecting renews physical electrical contact without solvent or mechanical cleaning. Where electrical connections are crucial are in the low voltage circuits, 5v and below where signals from sensors can influence pcm operation.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:26 AM   #34
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

There are commercial spray "contact cleaner" solvents, CRC Chemicals is a well-known vendor. However, I think you could do fine with alcohol or WD-40. Acetone is also a possibility, but just may attack the plastic connector housings a bit. Use a stiff toothbrush or an "acid brush" with the bristles cut short to be stiff. I would avoid using any kind of metal-wire brush.

If connecting a voltmeter down at the 10-pin connector is too daunting, then go up to the three trans fuses in the UHJB. Connect to any one of those, either side of the fuse. A lack of 12V there will be a very great clue, and it is an easy test to do; especially if this is now a "hard" failure.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

I cleaned all the connectors including J3 and the 10 pin at the vb. Most telling observation is that I got only that 56 code trans FET Driver failure with the 10 pin connected and not connected. I then connected the 10 pin and warmed engine up with trans in gear and the subsequent codes read were the 56 but now it added the previously mentioned 15 and 55. I made sure the 10 pin connector was snugged down. So the heat related codes did show up with heat I put in the trans but I donít think it has anything to do with my main problem.

Batt testing voltage was at 12.45. I checked voltage at two 5 amp trans fuses under hood. Both were there one only with key on. V was only 12.02 these fuses and the relay right there. While running I saw 14.55 at the fuses with 14.7 at the battery.

I think itís the Pcm. What say you?

I see non programmed pcm for $92 plus $30 core at parts house. Can I remove eprom ? Easily from my unit and plug into a new box or what are my options? Do GM dealer still flash obd1 stuff this old? Any other known good options in the Saturn or automotive tuning community?

The fact I got the same 56 with trans connected and not connected I think makes it moot but only thing I can think of is to carefully move some blades around a bit on the female side to possibly engage a pin or more better. That code and conditions in which it gives it I think all logic points to that driver for the solenoids I guess in the pcm being bad.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

I notice on Flagship 1 site for PCMs the calibration and service number on my pcm sticker donít seem to match their data for 1994. I sent them all my info VIN etc and numbers on my junker pcm. Not sure why it would cause trans driver issue after a while but checking into all data.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

The PCM does not have removable PROM, it has to be "flashed" to the desired config. I would expect that most Chevy dealers still have the tools and info needed to do that. Actually, any GM dealer, but I don't think a Caddy dealer will be much interested or reasonably priced...

Clarify this: "Both were there one only with key on."

It isn't clear to me that it is the PCM, but the $92+prog may be more practical for you to try than to do more thorough checking down at the 10-pin trans connector. Of course, if the PCM change does not fix it, then you are going to have to get back to that 10-pin connector anyway.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Pcm1 5 amp had 12.02v key on only.
pcmB 5 amp had same voltage with key off or on which goes along with what someone said about it being used to maintain pcm memory with key off.
The relay clicked and has same voltage. Everything seemed normal to me.

The point I want to focus on again is the pcm gave me the 56 FET driver fail code with engine running whether the 10 pin was connected or not. Logic doesnít always work in these matters but that tells me the issue is there regardless of trans connection or trans matters.

10 ohm test load you just use a resistor or some sort of test piece to make it easier? Is that required or for margin of safety or?

Trans used to be completely fine or completely not in the blink of an eye so any wiring issues were coming and going relative to me shutting down the engine and restarting over many cycles which doesnít seem likely to me. And if it is a wire thing it should be only one but I doubt it and ultimately it would mean the 10 pin is completely working or not working to the degree the trans wonít work at all electrically. Iíve been told a FET either works or doesnít and this wouldnít likely be intermittent for a time as part of failure mode. I have also read that. So if it isnít the pcm, what single trans related wire would cause this all or nothing result for the trans?

I hope my logic makes sense. Let me know if it doesnít.

Also, my 21022423 service no. PCM appears to be a 1993 year. This may explain why either the 55 or 56 code Iíve seen deciphered out to 1992/93 year vehicles only. 93 pcm in a 94 as long as both DOHC Auto doesnít seem to be a deal breaker but there could be something amiss that correlates to this problem.

Last edited by cbizzme; 04-03-2020 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

The (trans) 55 code has nothing to do with the 10-pin. That sensor/connector is in front of the trans, under the spin-on filter. Likewise, the 56 failure may be of an FET unrelated to the solenoids, like the "Hot" lamp. Hmm, maybe if there was a problem with the Hot lamp operation you would get a trans code 15?

A comment about Flagship 1: I got my PCM from them and it seemed like the order didn't go smoothly. At one point, I even feared they were scammers. However, the PCM did come on schedule and does work perfectly.
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Changed valve body with updated still limp mode

Beginning to think this thing is haunted. Iíve cinched the 10 pin down carefully successfully now twice in the roughly two years Iíve owned the car and both have been in the last day. I just cinched it down and itís down and engaged as far as I can see and feel with my hand but itís not cinching down torque wise, same torque just keeps rolling and torque is higher but also consistent trying to loosen it, so Iím pretty annoyed at this point. It seems to have cross threaded or stripped with no apparent reason why...not a happy camper.

Anyhow, still getting 56 code all the time. 55 code shows up half warmed up. I warmed it up to full temp and then 15 code shows up. That pcm place is in NY and Iím wondering if theyíre locked down. I emailed them 3-4 hours ago no response, too early to tell.

My plan at this point is to get a pcm from them or similar for 1994 and with VIN in mind. They ask for VIN for programming. I gave it to them. If I plug that in and it works I should be good indefinitely.

If it doesnít Iíll yank the battery and stuff at some point and work on that connector.í

Guessing no but anyone have NOS 10 pin connectors or aftermarket or is this junkyard only? Hopefully itís just the bolt but if I have to I guess I can work on the threads in the new vb or just switch to the old.

PS what is the hot lamp anyway? Iím not seeing any lights on dash other than the solid cel. What and where is the hot lamp if anyone knows?
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