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Old 02-05-2019, 12:24 PM   #1
craftsman70
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Default New Vue owner - rust proofing question

So I've been on Saturnfans a long time as I've owned a number of S-series. This week I'll be purchasing a used 2007 V6 Vue FWD. Its from the south and doesn't have any rust underneath. I'll be bringing this Vue up to Pennsylvania where they use a lot of salt on the roads. I've seen a number of opinions for and against rustproofing/undercoating, but have always felt its probably a good idea. So before I get a local shop to do it, is there any particular consensus among members as to why I should or shouldn't do it?
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

I'm not knowledgeable on the rustproof issue, but I own the same ride.

Change your trans fluid. Then change it again! Just a drain and refill. Drive some, repeat. I use Maxlife ATF, but feel free to use DW-1 if you want to go by the book. Just do it.

Do you know when the timing belt/tensioners/water pump were done, if ever? I did them myself. Not that hard, but I've been in engines before.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Thanks for the reply!

I know the timing belt and water pump has not yet been changed. I thought I saw the scheduled service is 100,000 miles. I was wondering how time plays into that. Its 11 years old and at 79,000miles, should I do it now or wait until in the 90,000s? Did you use aftermarket parts or OEM? I saw some discussions on that. And do you just do the waterpump, tensioner, and belt or do you also do those to guides that seem to be in the center of the pictures I see. I assume there are bearings in them that need replaced?

As for trans fluid, why the extra changes? Does the fluid accumulate dirt/debris more than a normal transmission?
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

I had this guy do my 2006 Vue(a Wisconsin vehicle) a little over a year ago.

https://www.assortedcoatings.com/undercoating-services

The material is getting hard and rust is still forming under it in a few spots. I've started to use a mixture of used transmission oil and candle wax heated to a temperature of 180 degrees F, and sprayed on with just a hand sprayer. The ratio of wax to oil depends on where I apply it. Inside cavities gets higher percent of oil.

After reading about good looking Vues being junked due to the body mounts for the engine rusting away, I sprayed that area with WD-40 (easy to do with the wheels on the ground) and intend to clean out the nut pocket and fill it with the wax/oil mix when weather allows.

Don't know of any undercoat that can be relied on ONE AND DONE.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

[QUOTE=Bruce Rock;2292177]
... I've started to use a mixture of used transmission oil and candle wax heated to a temperature of 180 degrees F, and sprayed on with just a hand sprayer. The ratio of wax to oil depends on where I apply it. Inside cavities gets higher percent of oil.



That's pretty interesting. Are you able to keep it warm long enough for it to spray and not solidify in the sprayer wand? Thanks for the tip about keeping the mount areas clear.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

[QUOTE=craftsman70;2292180]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Rock View Post
...


That's pretty interesting. Are you able to keep it warm long enough for it to spray and not solidify in the sprayer wand?
I get about 90% out of the 26 oz bottle before it hardens up. Have to work fast. I tried running hot oil through it to keep the sprayer clear but found it easier to use several bottles and than use the water portion of the double broiler to remelt and recover the mix. Once mixed the oil/wax doesn't separate.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman70 View Post
Thanks for the reply!

I know the timing belt and water pump has not yet been changed. I thought I saw the scheduled service is 100,000 miles. I was wondering how time plays into that. Its 11 years old and at 79,000miles, should I do it now or wait until in the 90,000s? Did you use aftermarket parts or OEM? I saw some discussions on that. And do you just do the waterpump, tensioner, and belt or do you also do those to guides that seem to be in the center of the pictures I see. I assume there are bearings in them that need replaced?

As for trans fluid, why the extra changes? Does the fluid accumulate dirt/debris more than a normal transmission?
On the timing belt, I used all OEM (HIGHLY recommended) except the belt. Mine was changed at 136,000 miles, and was all original. The belt still looked good, and the tensioners were all visually good. The problem, of course, is that if the belt breaks, your engine is now a boat anchor.

To simplify, use this for OEM parts: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...433578&jsn=366

Age does play a factor, and you're getting to the end of life age-wise.

As to the trans fluid, many a Honda trans has gone south on factory fluid. They will develop torque converter shudder. As Honda does not recommend a flush, they actually recommend a 3X drain and refill. So, drain out 4 quarts give or take, drive it a while, drain it, and do that 2 more times. The factory fluid (Z1) is garbage. The replacement (DW-1) isn't much better. It shears down in viscosity rather quickly, and the internals don't like it. After a few drain and refills over time, I'd do 1 drain and refill no later than 30k miles. My schedule is going to be every 3rd oil change. It's super easy, and might as well while you're there. I don't care if you use DW-1, Maxlife, or Amsoil (all known to work), but keep it fresh. I just think Maxlife is the best for both fluid properties, and price/availability.

PS: I've read more about trans fluid for this particular application than I care to admit here. It was not a decision I made while reading the backs of bottles at AutoZone! Here, read this: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2932667
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Last edited by Woodpecker; 02-06-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodpecker View Post
To simplify, use this for OEM parts: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...433578&jsn=366
Thanks for all the info. Especially the parts. I didn't realize AISIN was the OEM on this and would have been trying to get them from Honda or GM. You are a life saver.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman70 View Post
Thanks for all the info. Especially the parts. I didn't realize AISIN was the OEM on this and would have been trying to get them from Honda or GM. You are a life saver.
You're very welcome. The hardest part is keeping the cam gear marks where they should be when you thread the belt on. Move just a tad off either way, and the cam wants to spin like 60 or 90 degrees. There's a very small area where they will stay with the marks lined up. No special tools necessary. Of course, after the belt is on, rotate the engine 2 full revolutions to make sure the marks were and are lined up. Might have a new upper engine mount (OEM) ready to go back on, as it's already off, and they go to crap frequently anyway. It's 62 bucks at RockAuto. This code is good for 5% off until March 31 at RockAuto, which will probably about cover shipping for all of it. 10134451088573426
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodpecker View Post
Might have a new upper engine mount (OEM) ready to go back on, as it's already off, and they go to crap frequently anyway. It's 62 bucks at RockAuto. This code is good for 5% off until March 31 at RockAuto, which will probably about cover shipping for all of it. 10134451088573426
Thanks for the code and the suggestion. Should I do the other motor mount at the same time or does the other one not go bad as often? Thanks for the code too! About the cams gears moving, I'm surprised that the gear line up doesn't have to be super precise. Wouldn't them being off by just 1 degree change the valve timing?
Finally, I don't see any paper shop manuals for sale for the Vue? Did they print them or are they just that rare? If buying a PDF version, on ebay the only lists split the 2002-2006 and then the 2007-2011. Seems odd that the 2007 would be in with the next generation. Is that the way to go, ebay cd 2007-2011?

Last edited by craftsman70; 02-07-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Also change the spark plugs at the same time. Much easier to turn the engine over with the plugs out.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman70 View Post
Thanks for the code and the suggestion. Should I do the other motor mount at the same time or does the other one not go bad as often? Thanks for the code too! About the cams gears moving, I'm surprised that the gear line up doesn't have to be super precise. Wouldn't them being off by just 1 degree change the valve timing?
Finally, I don't see any paper shop manuals for sale for the Vue? Did they print them or are they just that rare? If buying a PDF version, on ebay the only lists split the 2002-2006 and then the 2007-2011. Seems odd that the 2007 would be in with the next generation. Is that the way to go, ebay cd 2007-2011?
On mine, the other mounts didn't show any signs of failing, so I left them. The upper goes bad, and will allow vibration, so if it's original, I'd just change it while you're there. Mine vibrated noticeably less after the change.

The cam gears do need to be lined up correctly! The problem is keeping them in the "sweet spot" while you're putting the new belt on. The slightest nudge will have them trying to rotate with quite a bit of force to one side or the other.

As to the shop manual, I never looked for one. I did look here and other places for real-life experiences in doing the job and printed down some tips and how-tos. There was quite a bit more to be found elsewhere with people doing the job on Honda Pilots and other 3.2 or 3.5 Honda J engines.

Stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtYx9kQppjg
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman70 View Post
So I've been on Saturnfans a long time as I've owned a number of S-series. This week I'll be purchasing a used 2007 V6 Vue FWD. Its from the south and doesn't have any rust underneath. I'll be bringing this Vue up to Pennsylvania where they use a lot of salt on the roads. I've seen a number of opinions for and against rustproofing/undercoating, but have always felt its probably a good idea. So before I get a local shop to do it, is there any particular consensus among members as to why I should or shouldn't do it?
My thoughts on Rustproofing, once the car has been in road chemistry I wouldn't do it as it will trap any remaining chemical within the coating, you can however spray with used oil or such, & coat key components that are visible & clean. I found over the years you eventually will lose to the effects of chemicals no matter what. I picked up a U body that spent 5 years in the Philadelphia/Delaware area that the undercarriage looked beautiful, but of course that's the eastern part of your state where the winters aren't as harsh.

The liquid brine (added to the salt) they use in my state is VERY aggressive, the folks I work with that come over from PA noted this, the brine will get into places other chemicals won't & likely it will be there to stay. A co worker just bought a '99 Tahoe that spent it's life in Pittsburgh & it looks pretty decent compared to what we see locally.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

there are places you can take it to get proper undercoating applied

people do this frequently with vintage cars

Im sure they at least blast the underside with a pressure washer and let it dry before putting on the goop

BTW, one thing that makes a car rust out faster is parking it outside. When your car is outside in the cool air, even in the sping and fall, as the temp drops the moisture in the air will condense on the metal all under your vehicle. When it warms up in the morning it slowly evaporates off. So even if its not raining, and even if you put a cover over a car, condensation will still get the frame wet nearly every night.

If you need to see this for yourself, take a walk on the lawn in the evening or first thing in the morning: Dew!

That is why its better to park your vehicle in a garage, with 4 walls and closed doors, even if its not heated. Its not the rain, its the dew.

The worse thing you can do is park your vehicle on the grass everynight. The moisture from the ground will soak your car all night.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodpecker View Post
On the timing belt, I used all OEM (HIGHLY recommended) except the belt. Mine was changed at 136,000 miles, and was all original. The belt still looked good, and the tensioners were all visually good. The problem, of course, is that if the belt breaks, your engine is now a boat anchor.

To simplify, use this for OEM parts: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...433578&jsn=366

Age does play a factor, and you're getting to the end of life age-wise.
How difficult would it be for a total newbie like myself to do the timing belt? Would you recommend it or should I just buy the kit and let my mechanic do it for $500? I've watched videos and have a Saturn Vue Haynes repair manual, but it seems like you have to absolutely get this right else you risk of damaging the engine.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

As long as the timing marks line up after you install the belt, there is no real risk of damaging the engine. Well, if you don't tighten the tensioner or pulley bolts, sure, but otherwise no way to screw it up. Assume you have another car to drive as you probably want to spread out the job over few days.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
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How difficult would it be for a total newbie like myself to do the timing belt? Would you recommend it or should I just buy the kit and let my mechanic do it for $500? I've watched videos and have a Saturn Vue Haynes repair manual, but it seems like you have to absolutely get this right else you risk of damaging the engine.
I'm pretty good with engine work, and if you asked would I rather a) do the job again, or b) hand a mechanic $500 and sit back and have a beer, I'd probably opt for b!

It's not a terrible job, but it is a bit tedious. I was about 6-7 hours start to finish, and that was taking my time. I had the fancy fat socket for the crank bolt, and air tools. I ended up using a breaker bar wedged on a frame piece and bumping the starter to get the bolt to loosen. The rest was all standard stuff, except lining up timing marks and triple checking that before reassembly.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: New Vue owner - rust proofing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCW View Post
there are places you can take it to get proper undercoating applied

people do this frequently with vintage cars

Im sure they at least blast the underside with a pressure washer and let it dry before putting on the goop

BTW, one thing that makes a car rust out faster is parking it outside. When your car is outside in the cool air, even in the sping and fall, as the temp drops the moisture in the air will condense on the metal all under your vehicle. When it warms up in the morning it slowly evaporates off. So even if its not raining, and even if you put a cover over a car, condensation will still get the frame wet nearly every night.

If you need to see this for yourself, take a walk on the lawn in the evening or first thing in the morning: Dew!

That is why its better to park your vehicle in a garage, with 4 walls and closed doors, even if its not heated. Its not the rain, its the dew.

The worse thing you can do is park your vehicle on the grass everynight. The moisture from the ground will soak your car all night.
You bring up a good point, though I would think the worst thing you could do is bring your heavily salted car into a garage, (especially a heated garage), in the winter. The corrosive effects of road chemical are amplified in warmer temperatures. (why it's important to get it off which may involve standing in line at a car wash for over an hour.)

Saw this on the news last week, ODOT & some localities are using a radioactive additive now to the salt, suppose to be less corrosive.

AquaSalina

& yes I would think a rustproofing place would consider washing down the undercarriage, though it would take considerable time to do a complete job (& to properly let it dry), that liquid brine & powder residue becomes airborne & goes everywhere (like the dew you speak of), I even get a dust all over my dash in the winter which is likely some sort of airborne residue.
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