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Old 03-11-2003, 10:49 AM   #1
Heartbeat - '95 SL2
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1995 SL2
Default Saying "Hi" and my thoughts on seatback recliner

I haven't been here for a while, so thought I'd stop in to say "Hi."

I haven't checked in here since I replaced my coolant, hoses, thermostat, and coolant temp sensor at Christmas time. No signs of cracking on the original resin CTS, so it still may be good? Maybe I'll try swapping it with the air temp sensor to see if it works there. Mileage went up, but is still short of what it was new. Field test mode still doesn't have the SES light blinking like as described in the Chilton manual, although it's different than before the maintenance. I may replace the O2 sensor if my car doesn't pass smog this October. Luckily, my car has been doing fine, although I haven't been logging a lot of miles.

I did get the seatback recliner notice. I'll have the work done, although I hate bringing my car in for something when it seems to work fine. The last thing I'd want is to start having problems after the fix is done, know what I mean? Although I'm the only one that drives my car, and I almost never use the reclining mechanism, I have noticed occassionally that after I pull the seatback forward, and click it back (I drive with it in the most vertical position), that once I put my weight against it, it ratchets back one more notch.

I figure I'll wait a little while. There's probably a big rush of people bringing in their cars right after the notices went out. Also, if practice makes perfect, the techs will be better and faster at replacing the mechanisms as time goes by and they do more. I'll need an oil change in a month or so, so I'll call ahead to be sure they have the parts in stock and do it then.

Too bad -- I was hoping they'd send a letter out saying they'd fix any oil control ring problems, LOL. Still adding 1/2 qt. every 1/2 tankful of gas, but luckily oil is cheap, as I stocked up a while ago. Gas isn't, as it's now about $2.05/gallon here in So. Cal. Above the nat'l average of $1.75/gallon due to our wonderful shortage caused by the phasing in of the summer blend.

Hope everyone's doing well as 2003 flies by!
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Old 03-11-2003, 11:21 AM   #2
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Jason: We have the same car, but mine has 335,000+ miles on it and am using 1qt per 500 miles, using Quaker State 30w (@69 cents/ when on sale at Kragon--L.A.times adv insert).
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Field test mode still doesn't have the SES light blinking like as described in the Chilton manual
I regularly check my SES via field mode (using my Sunpro Code Reader). What type of light signal are you getting. I've checked mine in various states of engine operation.

'95 SL2 Auto, no ABS
...
> 95 SL 2 = 653,369 Miles 40.4 MPG, as of 5/20/11. My manual Radiator Fan Switch, courtesy of Wolfman's patient installation guidance, continues to be.......invaluable < The car was retired
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:29 PM   #3
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Hey Luke, we do have the same year and engine, but mine's a stick with ABS, so the PCM is a little different for those things. Engine stuff shouldn't matter, but who really knows? Anyways, at 113k miles, my car uses about 1 qt./300 miles, but I do have a small cam cover leak which I still haven't fixed as well as an oil pan leak which I may never fix. I buy whatever oil is on sale, also at Kragen, usually about 70/qt. I just cracked open the 2nd case of Havoline/Texaco 5W-30. I didn't notice a difference in consumption when I tried straight 30 weight, and I don't really want to go to 40 weight since my oil analysis at 90k miles showed no signs of engine wear.

As for the field test mode, I only test it once the engine is warmed up and at idle, when it should be in closed-loop mode. My SES used to be erratic once the engine was warmed up, seemingly jumping from closed to open loop. Now that I changed out the cooling system stuff, including the CTS, when the engine is warm, the SES light blinks steadily every 2 seconds or so. I think the Chilton manual says it should be longer intervals.

Before spending the money on the O2 sensor, which I'd guess probably needs replacing at 113k miles, I figured I'd wait to see how it does at smog in October. My mileage had dropped down to about 22 mpg mixed driving, but is now 23 mpg only lately that it's been all short trip street driving. Mixed driving has gone up to about 25 mpg, when it had been about 28 mpg new. Fwy driving on a trip to Elsinore was about 33 mpg, when it used to be about 38 mpg when the car was younger.

Hmmm, if my calculations are correct, spending $70 on an O2 sensor may pay for itself in about a year, with gas being $2/gallon. Maybe I shouldn't wait until smog in October.
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Old 03-12-2003, 11:37 AM   #4
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Jason:


Some background: from Saturn's Service Manual cover Field Service Mode
When grounding the diagnostic terminal (lower left from stearing wheel), while the engine is running, the system enters the Field Service Mode. The resulting blinking SES light will indicate whether the system is in Open Loop or Closed Loop. In Open Loop, the lamp will flash two and a half times per second. You'll see the lamp flash,2&half times per second, just that way should you ground the terminal just after starting your car(open loop status). In my case, the short blinks last about 10-15 seconds, after which it flashes once a second, indicating that it went into Open Loop. It appears that the system goes into Open Loop, when the coolant temperature reads above 68F degrees and the Oxygen Sensor reads above 600F degrees. While in Open Loop, the lamp will stay off most of the time if the system is running lean, while the lamp will stay on most of the time if it is running rich. In my case, my system goes into Open Loop rather quickly -- within 30 seconds---or less..

I mention the above because I'm perceiving that there may be another reason for the "bucking" problems some of us have been having. The other morning, just after starting the car, there was that famous "bucking"--I inserted my ProSys code reader to see that the system was still in the closed loop status. As the system went to open loop, the "bucking" ceased. My next step is to see if I can create the "bucking" while on the road (( slight incline, under load, at 2,000 - 2,500 rpms )). At that time, I'll go into Field Service Mode to see if the system has fallen into "closed loop". I'll report appropriate results.

I'm wondering if there may be a relationship with the engine coolant sensor, also. I just can't imagine that being the case, because, the last time the "bucking" happened, it was while going up a hill, having just dropped down to 3rd gear running at 3,000 rpm (automatic).
...
> 95 SL 2 = 653,369 Miles 40.4 MPG, as of 5/20/11. My manual Radiator Fan Switch, courtesy of Wolfman's patient installation guidance, continues to be.......invaluable < The car was retired
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Old 03-16-2003, 09:14 AM   #5
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You're trying to confuse me, right? LOL, I think you meant to say "closed loop" for about the second half of your post, ie once the temp conditions are met.

So my O2 sensor is twitchy. When it's cold, the SES light blinks fast indicating open loop. Once warmed to operating temp at idle, it seems to stay illuminated for about 10 secs, then off about 15 secs. This varies, with sometimes almost equal times, and occassionally it slips into closed again and blinks quickly.

I believe I have the manual version of the bucking you have. After starting my car, as I coast and idle through some speed bumps, my car's idle surges +/- 200 rpms. I thought this would go away with a new CTS, but it didn't. Occassionally, when cold and in 1st to 2nd gear, I'll get bucking, but I figured it was my morning, less-than-graceful clutching/accelerating. I throw it into N and back into gear, and the bucking stops.

I'll try to remember to jump the ALDL next time I start cold, and see if I can notice a link between open/closed loop and the RPM surging and/or bucking.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:45 PM   #6
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If I may jump in for a sec.(I have a 94SL2 with CA Emissions and linear EGR/ Same car as you guys). Open loop is when the car is "open" to receiving input from various sensors. Closed loop is where the car is running cold, using "default" settings or not utilizing various inputs from sensors.

With that said, your bucking issues most likely aren't sensor related if you're noticing them within the first 30 seconds of operation. Many sensors won't trip an SES code when they're failing. However, if you are popping a code, it should be stored even after the light has stopped blinking.

I believe differentracing.com has a technical section with the code breakdown. I always keep a paperclip in my car, just in case.
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Old 03-16-2003, 07:57 PM   #7
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Open loop means the car is not using the oxygen sensor to control air/fuel mixture.(it uses a base program).You run in open loop when first starting and when the oxygen sensor isnt warm enough to operate yet.When oxygen sensor warms up you go into closed loop letting the ECM use the oxygen sensor to control the fuel mixture.
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Old 03-16-2003, 09:25 PM   #8
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Dagnabit, I did it again. How is it that I always get that backwards????

Yes, Weasel_ugs is right.
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