SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Mods

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-24-2008, 10:27 PM   #1
irondiezl3
Member
irondiezl3 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 321
Dizzy i need the facts bottom line on cai

i hate reading so many different opinions on cai. i need the truth i put a k and n filter in m y stock airbox. i figured its the same performance as a cold air intake. is there really a difference in cold air instead of just a kand n in my stock box? whos right some say stock with k and n some say cai is little better which is true?
irondiezl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-24-2008, 10:51 PM   #2
97sleeper
Member
97sleeper is on a distinguished road
 
97sleeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eden/Evans, NY
Posts: 416

1997 SL2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

From what I've experienced with a couple Saturn's (SC2's and SL2's), 99 Pontiac Grand Am SE, 88 Lincoln Mark VII, 93 Ford Mustang, 02 VW GTI (I think it was an 02) as well as a few others, the drop in filter did nothing for the most part, whereas the CAI gave it some more power. The advantage to the drop in is that you will probably never have to buy more than 1-2 more, provided that you take care of the car and get rid of it later. With the CAI, you get a colder air charge coming in which means you get more oxygen due to the denser air. You are going spend a more money, but you are buying a higher performance part. There is a person out there in the Saturn community that builds 3" CAI for cheaper than an AEM, which is only 2.5" but I can't remember the site. Someone else on here should chime in and post it if I can't find it in time.
...
A good Saturn is a good sleeper -J. Beanan
97 SL2
-N/A sleeper build, check my profile the list
93 Ford Exploder
-5spd 4WD 4.0L V6
-800W sound system
-4 100W lights
97sleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 10:52 PM   #3
tarsun
Advanced Member
tarsun is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 748
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

ha ha ha ha.... what makes you any different? your going to get the same thing here in this post. some people will say its allot better and some will say no difference.

the way I see it... look at your air box, and look where the air enters it. that small little tube at the bottom. so in that sense, a WAI or a CAI will give you a little more power over the box. due to a wider opening...
tarsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 10:57 PM   #4
cloud819
Master Member
cloud819 will become famous soon enough
 
cloud819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,313
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by irondiezl3 View Post
i hate reading so many different opinions on cai. i need the truth i put a k and n filter in m y stock airbox. i figured its the same performance as a cold air intake. is there really a difference in cold air instead of just a kand n in my stock box? whos right some say stock with k and n some say cai is little better which is true?
Capital letters go at the beginning of sentences.

Now to answer, K&Ns are Ok and work to some extent. They work by both using an element with less resistance to airflow and extra surface area.

But they are limited because tey use you stock intake piping which is not optimized for airflow. Stock intake piping is designed to be quiet at the expense of flow. The K&N filter is also limited to the size of the stock air box.

CAIs flow air with less resistance, they also tend to be topped off with filter elements that flow much more than a stock sized filter can flow. But they are noisier.

Personally I'd skip a K&N stock replacement any day and go to a CAI. A CAI offers much more performance.

It should be noted that a few studies have found all oil gause filters satisticly lower the lifetime (in mileage) of a car. It must bee said that this has something to do with the drivers of the cars, but many studies have shown that oil and gause elements allows more crap through than a standard paper element. The moral is don't think that a oil and gause filter does a better job at filtering air than a paper on does.
cloud819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 11:28 PM   #5
krimson
Junior Member
krimson is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlantic Beach Fla
Posts: 22

2001 SC1
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

I agree completely with Cloud. More gain with CAI, you just have to keep an eye on the upkeep of the free-flow filter. Keep them clean and oiled to help keep germs out.
krimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 12:46 AM   #6
Dang
Member
Dang is on a distinguished road
 
Dang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phx, AZ
Posts: 54

2000 SL2
2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97sleeper View Post
There is a person out there in the Saturn community that builds 3" CAI for cheaper than an AEM, which is only 2.5" but I can't remember the site. Someone else on here should chime in and post it if I can't find it in time.

The 3" CAI is qksltwo.com (eric?):
http://www.qksltwo.com/forsale.html

Also, not sure if he still makes em. But as for whether it's worth getting a CAI, here's some pages from his site:

Mods page, talks about intakes:
http://www.qksltwo.com/STRsaturnrate.html

AEM CAI review:
http://www.qksltwo.com/1995AEM.html

I like the search funkshun too....
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29052
Dang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 03:15 AM   #7
rc1488
Master Member
rc1488 has a spectacular aura aboutrc1488 has a spectacular aura about
 
rc1488's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Carmel, NY
Posts: 5,658
 

1997 SL2
1995 SC2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

haha wow this question is getting to be as common as "whats the best oil for my saturn" with the same results

Theres many different variations of a CAI. Each has its own benifits.
...
Current: 95 SC2 Man 97 SL2 Auto 98 SL1 Auto 01 SL1 Man 02 SL1 Man
Past: 94 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 96 SL2 Auto 97 SL2 Man 98 SL2 Auto 99 SL2 Auto
2010 SCCA Mohud Street Championship-2nd Place
rc1488 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 10:32 AM   #8
goBoating
Member
goBoating will become famous soon enoughgoBoating will become famous soon enough
 
goBoating's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SC
Posts: 308
 

2004 VUE 3.5L
2008 AURA XE
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

There are situations where a cold air intake is significantly better than a drop in filter. But, ......

A CAI without better flow will yield insignificant improvement.
A CAI with better air flow CAN yield some improvement.
A CAI with better air flow and a performance tune WILL yield significant improvement.

The problem is that with Saturns, there is not an easy way to tweak the engine management (tune it) to take advantage of the improved plumbing. If you can find a way to tune the thing to take advantage of the new plumbing, it might be worth putting the new plumbing in. If you can't tune it, then new plumbing won't yield much improvement.

In any case, if I were going to spend money on an intake, I'd want to see dyno sheets showing the gains for my car/engine/intake/and exhaust setup. If the thing really yields more power, the supplier should be able to prove it.
...
Don't Tread on Me
A strict constructionist fiscal conservative free market freak I am.

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - M. Thatcher
goBoating is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 04:58 PM   #9
ajs_saturn
Advanced Member
ajs_saturn will become famous soon enoughajs_saturn will become famous soon enough
 
ajs_saturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 778
 

2001 SL1
2001 SC1
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

What's with that in qksl2.com in the information on the CAI?!?! It says "$200 shipped. If you are white I charge extra too." WTF man?!?!
...
2001 SL1 5spd - DOHC swap and MS in the works
Bought 02/27/14

2000 SL 5spd
Bought 04/05/05
Sold 06/14/10
ajs_saturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 05:24 PM   #10
PurdueGuy
Master Member
PurdueGuy is a jewel in the roughPurdueGuy is a jewel in the roughPurdueGuy is a jewel in the rough
 
PurdueGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blackfoot, ID
Posts: 6,483

1999 SC2
1999 SC1
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajs_saturn View Post
What's with that in qksl2.com in the information on the CAI?!?! It says "$200 shipped. If you are white I charge extra too." WTF man?!?!
Ian/qksl2/FSR is not a big corporation with a PR department sterilizing every comment made. It is a small company with very few employees, and a sense of humor. Hint: it's a joke.
...
SaturnSeries.net owner
PurdueGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 08:18 PM   #11
dream36realms
Advanced Member
dream36realms is on a distinguished road
 
dream36realms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Iraq
Posts: 546
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Ian and FSR (formerly qksl2) have done WAY TO MUCH for the community I'd pay for what he has to offer for well researched products. You really got be greatful in how much effert goes into the production of any of thier products. Same goes for a number of venders (like Mike aka alphatuning).
dream36realms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 08:33 AM   #12
S3aturnR
Master Member
S3aturnR is a jewel in the roughS3aturnR is a jewel in the roughS3aturnR is a jewel in the rough
 
S3aturnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, Mi.
Posts: 3,545
 

1996 SL2
1999 SL1
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by irondiezl3 View Post
i hate reading so many different opinions on cai. i need the truth i put a k and n filter in m y stock airbox. i figured its the same performance as a cold air intake. is there really a difference in cold air instead of just a kand n in my stock box? whos right some say stock with k and n some say cai is little better which is true?
there's not enough performance difference to worry about. the cai sounds cooler, tho...


s3aturnr
...
"reno is a lot like maybury, except everyone's on crystal meth and prostitution's legal" - junior
S3aturnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 10:02 AM   #13
THE OUTLAW CODY
Member
THE OUTLAW CODY is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 158
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud819 View Post
Capital letters go at the beginning of sentences.
are you and English teacher? its the internet... at least he spells out all his words, and uses punctuation. get over it.
THE OUTLAW CODY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 11:18 AM   #14
cloud819
Master Member
cloud819 will become famous soon enough
 
cloud819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,313
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE OUTLAW CODY View Post
are you and English teacher? its the internet... at least he spells out all his words, and uses punctuation. get over it.
No, but I think we should expect more out each other. The internet is a text based communication medium. If you can't properly communicate your ideas in text, you can't expect people to take your questions or ideas seriously.

Nearly everyone here has recieved formal teaching in the english language, most at the taxpayer's expense. Why is it unreasonable to assume that people should be able to communitcate properly in at least one written language?
cloud819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 12:36 PM   #15
Khellendrose
Member
Khellendrose is on a distinguished road
 
Khellendrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 415
 
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

I think what he is looking for is posts from people that actually have the CAI and or have actually taken the time to DYNO to see the difference. I can say that I got a 7.5HP gain with my short ram intake from stock. So honestly unless you have it and have some kind of honest proof dont bother posting opinions when thats not what he wants.
Khellendrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 02:06 PM   #16
Signmaster
Master Member
Signmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 6,227
 

1995 SL1
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khellendrose View Post
I think what he is looking for is posts from people that actually have the CAI and or have actually taken the time to DYNO to see the difference. I can say that I got a 7.5HP gain with my short ram intake from stock. So honestly unless you have it and have some kind of honest proof dont bother posting opinions when thats not what he wants.
Proof comes with a dyno chart.




Back to the original question:

Given equal flow, a CAI system should outperform one pulling underhood air. The key to that is assuming equal flow, which usually isn't equal when adding tubing. AEM and a few others have dynos. Take a look and make a decision, but there is no such thing as the perfect intake.

Chances are if you gain flow up in the higher revs, you're going to kill some velocity in the lower revs and lose HP at those ranges. Pick the one that suits what you do with the car.
Signmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 08:36 PM   #17
ruley73
Master Member
ruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to behold
 
ruley73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Is this heaven?....No, it's Iowa!
Posts: 3,012
 

2007 ION-2 Quad Coupe
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

I couldn't find it on there right now, but I know with absolute certainty that AEM's website once had a dyno test sheet posted that showed a gain of about 9 HP and 7 Ft-Ibs torque with their CAI p/n 21-631P. This is the part number for a 2000-2002 DOHC, earlier years use p/n 21-630P.

A cold air intake on a Saturn will handily outperform a K&N drop-in filter. I too have had K&N filters in other vehicles and the only noticable differencethey made was better initial throttle response from idle.

I can't speak for the intake alone. But I do agree with everything in qksltwo's review of the AEM CAI, but I will note that my CAI has an ID of 2.25". But as I said above the 2000-2002 DOHCs use a different part number. The intake rumble around 6200 RPM makes it worth the expense IMO. But don't ask me. I didn't buy my mods - the previous owner did .
...
2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 183K miles *gone*
2007 Chevy Equinox LT 195K miles
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 50K miles

Last edited by ruley73; 03-26-2008 at 08:47 PM.
ruley73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 09:35 PM   #18
JohnSL2
New Member
JohnSL2 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 2

1996 SL2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

AMR also plans on making an 3 inch CAI once a few more people join. Though I think most people who get the 3 inch have a geo tb.
JohnSL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2008, 09:45 AM   #19
Khellendrose
Member
Khellendrose is on a distinguished road
 
Khellendrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 415
 
Thumbs Down Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Injen also had dyno charts for there short ram.
Khellendrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2008, 12:55 PM   #20
rc1488
Master Member
rc1488 has a spectacular aura aboutrc1488 has a spectacular aura about
 
rc1488's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Carmel, NY
Posts: 5,658
 

1997 SL2
1995 SC2
Default Re: i need the facts bottom line on cai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
Chances are if you gain flow up in the higher revs, you're going to kill some velocity in the lower revs and lose HP at those ranges. Pick the one that suits what you do with the car.
Haha me and Signmaster have a thread of like 4 pages i think about intakes. One of the best RESPECTABLE conversation ive ever had here.

He is right in his post. Intakes, like everything else in the car, are designed to produce effects at a certain range. Do some research and find out where you want this effect the most. Redline? Highway speeds? initial take off? That is up to the driver
...
Current: 95 SC2 Man 97 SL2 Auto 98 SL1 Auto 01 SL1 Man 02 SL1 Man
Past: 94 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 96 SL2 Auto 97 SL2 Man 98 SL2 Auto 99 SL2 Auto
2010 SCCA Mohud Street Championship-2nd Place
rc1488 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Performance Exhaust - Bottom Line schn0511 Aura General 4 04-22-2009 01:30 PM
The Bottom Line, final opinion on buying an SC2 illuminata02 S-Series General 14 05-10-2005 12:08 AM
this guy has his facts wrong!! cdp326 Classifieds 3 11-25-2004 01:42 PM
Some interesting facts regarding Saturn and the ION amosstar Ion General 9 08-04-2003 12:48 PM
Car alarm and other interesting facts mr.martin003 S-Series Tech 8 02-21-2003 04:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.