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Old 12-12-2016, 09:17 AM   #1
oakfan
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Default Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

2002 Saturn SL1 - 104K Miles

I have a rattle can sound coming from the valve cover. I've taken the belt off and ran the engine without and the sound is still present. I also took off my valve cover and didn't notice any play in the lifters.

Here's a video of the Timing chain, is the play on the chain normal?

s1058.photobucket. com/user/CowonX7/media/VIDEO0005_zpsv7v7ykmg.mp4.html

Also, sound is louder over 2k rpms. I've changed the oil and the sound is the same. I can upload a new video with the sound tonight. I don't believe the previous owner kept up on oil changes.

Thanks for any help

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Old 12-12-2016, 09:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

I couldn't access the vid- repost correct link- but must say that noise, as you describe, usually ends with engine self-destruction.

Keep driving it if that ok.

Price out a guaranteed JY engine, or park it and rebuild the top end( and maybe the bottom, too).

...
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

There's no knocking sound, just a light tapping. Its been making the noise since I've owned it but thats only been the last 10 months.

I'm leaning toward a timing chain replacement, just wanted any opinions before I ordered a kit.

another link to the vid:
vid1058.photobucket. com/albums/t417/CowonX7/VIDEO0005_zpsv7v7ykmg.mp4

Can't post a direct link because I'm under 15 posts on my account

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Old 12-12-2016, 09:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by oakfan View Post
vid1058.photobucket. com/albums/t417/CowonX7/VIDEO0005_zpsv7v7ykmg.mp4
We did not find results for: www.vid1058.photobucket. com/albums/t417/CowonX7/VIDEO0005_zpsv7v7ykmg.mp4.

...
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

remove the space between ". com" and the "www"

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Old 12-12-2016, 10:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by oakfan View Post
just a light tapping. Its been making the noise since I've owned it but thats only been the last 10 months.

I'm leaning toward a timing chain replacement
It might be something in the VT that won't necessarily be solved with a TC replacemnt.

...
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by billysvue View Post
I couldn't access the vid- repost correct link-
worked fine for me, upgrade your phone to a proper PC so you can find & remove random spaces the forum makes new users insert
http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/Co...7ykmg.mp4.html


Pretty sure a timing chain that loose means it needs to be replaced.

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Old 12-12-2016, 11:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Unfortunately, that video only shows checking side-to-side looseness, but that isn't as important as how much play there is pushing the chain in the in-out direction. I agree, though, it doesn't look super; and that visible play, coupled with the noise, would sure have me either pulling the timing cover for inspection or making preparations to put in another engine. Once you lose valve timing, the head, pistons, and block may suffer...

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Old 12-12-2016, 02:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
worked fine for me, upgrade your phone to a proper PC so you can find & remove random spaces the forum makes new users insert
http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/Co...7ykmg.mp4.html


Pretty sure a timing chain that loose means it needs to be replaced.
My pc works just fine with a proper link... saw the purple gloves

...
'05 ,2.2L, FWD,5-speed stick with transaxle death rattle is history,,,
'17 Suby Forester

245216 mi. VUe is off to the dealer auction
I'm a secondhand vegetarian.
Cows eat grass, I eat cows.

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Old 12-12-2016, 03:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

I may be talking out of my exhaust pipe here, but doesn't the tensioner keep the timing chain from slapping around in normal mode?

Could it be the timing chain is fine but the tensioner is not? Checking Rock Auto, a new tensioner is a $25.00 part.

Timing chains/belts are one of those areas I keep well away from and leave to the professionals, but if there is noise, I would get it checked out quick before it causes a lot of expensive damage.

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Old 12-12-2016, 03:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

True, it could be the tensioner, or maybe a plastic guide, but all that stuff is pretty much behind the timing cover.

The noise could be coming from someplace in the VT other than the chain, but with that slop in it, the chain area seems most likely...

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Old 12-12-2016, 03:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
I may be talking out of my exhaust pipe here, but doesn't the tensioner keep the timing chain from slapping around in normal mode?

Could it be the timing chain is fine but the tensioner is not? Checking Rock Auto, a new tensioner is a $25.00 part.
yes, but the cost of the timing chain set pales compared to the labor involved.

Quote:
Timing chains/belts are one of those areas I keep well away from and leave to the professionals,
I'd only done minor maintenance type things (spark plugs, oil changes, one radiator) before I got my Saturn. After I got the Saturn, timing chain the very first thing I had to do on it.

I'm sure you can handle it. it's a pain because doing it with the engine in the car means very little space to work in, but it's not hard or complicated. just a whole lot of bolts to keep track of

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Old 12-12-2016, 04:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
yes, but the cost of the timing chain set pales compared to the labor involved.

I'd only done minor maintenance type things (spark plugs, oil changes, one radiator) before I got my Saturn. After I got the Saturn, timing chain the very first thing I had to do on it.

I'm sure you can handle it. it's a pain because doing it with the engine in the car means very little space to work in, but it's not hard or complicated. just a whole lot of bolts to keep track of
I understand where you are coming from. The one thing we don't know is the skill level of the OP. If he is a complete novice, I would say replacing a timing chain is not the place to start to learn. I have seen it on this and other forums where folks have approached this changing a bike chain and then get the timing all wrong and do damage. If the OP has the time, then work pace, the tools and skills or at least someone else who can be there to hold hands, then doing it himself will definitely save him money.

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Old 12-12-2016, 08:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Cloyes makes a set recommended by many users.

Here is what you need to be wary of:

This is an "interference" engine.

The timing chain rattle, regardless of it being the chain, the tensioner, or both still requires very tedious care when you replace it. And it will need to be serviced correctly.

If left to get worse, your pistons will eventually make contact with the open valves after the VT lets loose. The engine will be done, at that point.

When you service this area, you must have correct valve timing or upon starting you will run the same risk.

There is enough room to perform this repair with the engine inside the car. The upper mount needs to be removed, along with the passenger front wheel. There will be some plastic covers, on the inside of the wheel well, that need to come out. You can rent a harmonic balancer puller kit or buy one, nowadays.

It is a very time consuming process to perform and requires a decent level of mechanical aptitude.

So, if you have decent shops in the area, you may want to request an estimate and see if they warranty the work.

One other area to note: Oil Pressure

The clearances for the timing chain DO affect oil pressure. If the cover assembly has become worn from the slack, your oil pressure CAN drop VERY LOW and outside of the service minimum pressure needed for the engine.

All of this can translate to a blown engine that will stop working.

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Old 12-12-2016, 09:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

No puller is required for the balancer/pulley, it slips right off once you have the big screw in the center of it removed... there are a lot of threads here discussing the "best" way to get that screw loose!

The job can be done in the car, and most do it that way if the engine doesn't have to come out for any other reason. However, space is quite limited for getting that timing cover off. Don't rush the job, leave plenty of time for questions to be asked/answered.

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Old 12-12-2016, 10:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Air impact that bolt out.

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Old 12-13-2016, 09:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Thanks for all the input, I'm going to get the chain replaced ASAP by a local mechanic. I have experience with car repair but just doing basic things, Alternator, Water pumps, brakes, etc.... but no experience with Timing belts or Chains.

Also, here's the exact noise its making. Sounds better in person, but I know what needs to be done now.

vid1058.photobucket. com/albums/t417/CowonX7/VIDEO0006_zpswnwtgj3p.mp4

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Old 12-13-2016, 09:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Also, what would be a fair quote on shop time for the chain replacement with tensioner, Gears and guides? and should I go and pull a new timing cover from the local junk yard? Thanks again.

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Old 12-13-2016, 09:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by oakfan View Post
Also, what would be a fair quote on shop time for the chain replacement with tensioner, Gears and guides? and should I go and pull a new timing cover from the local junk yard? Thanks again.
Depends on how long they guarantee it... 6 mos/6,000 mi, 12 mos/12,000? NO guarantee?

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Old 12-13-2016, 09:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Rattle Can Sound from Valve Cover - Any help Appreciated

Actual noise vid link: http://vid1058.photobucket.com/album...pswnwtgj3p.mp4

As for shop time, it's warrantied at 4hrs (what they get paid when it's replaced under warranty) and standard time is 6hrs with power steering (just over 5hrs with manual steering). It's not really a hard job, just a labor intensive one.

As I have an engine hoist I'd be strongly tempted to pull the motor just to get proper access to the timing cover, I hate how little space there is with it in the car.

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