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Old 02-29-2016, 11:30 AM   #41
tgparker
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1997 SW1
Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

Removed the PCM B fuse for 5 minutes and cleared the P1401 "EGR Closed Position Performance" Code. (I'll be taking car out for a 5 mile drive to see if P1401 "EGR Closed Position Performance" Code comes back.)

I started the engine and ran until it reached running temp. Idle RPM gradually decreased to 3 ticks on the Tac. The way my Tac is marked there are 8 ticks between 0 and 1000 rpm with a slightly larger tick at 3 tics.

When the car was at running temp. the needle was at 3 tics, and then started to go lower. The engine was beginning to idle rough so I turned off the engine before it stalled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
If it is actually leaking it very well could be. Usually that code is just a slow close on the EGR so the first thing to do is to take it off and properly clean it out and then clear all codes by removing the PCM B fuse located in the UHJB(fuse box next to the battery) for a couple of minutes and then replacing. Drive the car and see if that code returns. If it does then it will be time to leak check the EGR.

Last edited by tgparker; 02-29-2016 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 03-03-2016, 03:02 PM   #42
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

Replacement eBay EGR arrived. First I flushed the two EGR ports that go to intake manifold passageway (???) with Throttle body cleaner and turned ont he engine. When Started the engine, it first revved to about 2500 rpm NOT 4500 rpm before it started to descend to 400 rpm. Is that significant?

I installed the new eBay EGR and still have a low idle when the engine reaches running temp. There is a slight improvement in the rpm. It seems to be running at about 400 rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
If it is actually leaking it very well could be. Usually that code is just a slow close on the EGR so the first thing to do is to take it off and properly clean it out and then clear all codes by removing the PCM B fuse located in the UHJB(fuse box next to the battery) for a couple of minutes and then replacing. Drive the car and see if that code returns. If it does then it will be time to leak check the EGR.
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:14 PM   #43
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

Yes, the intake EGR port is Plugged and this is causing problems. Did you get exhaust gas flow out of the other port? Both could be plugged and both must be open as designed. Soaking with carb cleaner is the easiest way to get them cleaned out.
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:57 PM   #44
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

I read in the one of the forum posts about snaking brake cable through the ports like a "roto-rooter" to break up the carbon. Can that be done safely without damaging anything? How deep do I need to go into the ports to completely clean them out?

BTW I also ordered the TOMCO TI INC 21357 EGR VALVE GASKET KLEAN SCREEN GASKET MADE IN USA. Is that a good idea?
http://r.ebay.com/PVifeZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Yes, the intake EGR port is Plugged and this is causing problems. Did you get exhaust gas flow out of the other port? Both could be plugged and both must be open as designed. Soaking with carb cleaner is the easiest way to get them cleaned out.
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:02 PM   #45
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

That gasket is a must have part. Yes bike brake cable will work. YouTube, search richpin06a saturn and you will get a list. Then add EGR to the search and you find the EGR path length measuring video.
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Old 03-03-2016, 11:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

The best way to find Youtubes is with Google.
"richpin saturn egr site:youtube.com"

Here is the YouTube you mentioned.
EGR Passageway Length
https://youtu.be/dJ_TkgjIW8U

Here is a YouTube on Cleaning EGR passageway on a 2001 Saturn SC1 using speedometer cable and drill.
Saturn SC1 P0401
https://youtu.be/oeLymC7KGhE



Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
That gasket is a must have part. Yes bike brake cable will work. YouTube, search richpin06a saturn and you will get a list. Then add EGR to the search and you find the EGR path length measuring video.
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:38 PM   #47
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

STILL have this Persistent Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto (140K) .
Car starts fine & idles @ more or less 900 Rpm. As engine approaches operating temp. Idle rpm gradually drops below 500 rpm, and when engine is at full operating temp. idle drops to below 300 rpm. Alternator running fine. Batt. shows 12.6 vdc static and 14.4 vdc running on voltmeter.
When I stop at light I have to put car in N or P to keep car from stalling.
Otherwise car drives fine.
Here's what I've done so far...
Cleaned Throttle Body
Piston Soak
Cleaned EGR

Still getting low idle after replacing all these parts.
IACV
Throttle position sensor
Serpentine Belt
Alternator
Serpentine Idler Pulley
ECTS
EGR
New Spark Plugs
New Ignition Wires
I blocked off EGR ports and I still get Low Idle Problem.

Suggestions? Ideas what else to do?

Could the problem be due to a clogged Catalytic converter?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:53 PM   #48
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

Have you checked for an exhaust leak?

Exhaust leak check.
--Locate a low pressure high volume air source, reversible vacuum cleaner, large fan, leaf blower or what ever you can find.
--Loosely couple to cold exhaust at the tail pipe, or direct fan at tail pipe.
--Spray every inch of the exhaust between the head and CAT inlet with a mixture of 2 or 3 drops of dish soap and water in a spray bottle.
--Pay close attention to the lower flange, lower support clamp, and flex connector.
--The flex connector is under the protective braid so it requires quite a bit of solution to show any leaks.

A plugged CAT is not likely or even credible if the car drives and revs up under load normally.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

I had a look underneath and It's an aftermarket combo Flex-pipe & Cat. It looks like it could really badly rusted through in lot's of places. I did only spot one smokey leak by the manifold flange which I plugged up with some paste, but there could be more. I've already ordered an after market combo flex-pipe and cat unit from eBay.

AB Catalytic 4178 DirectFit Catalytic Converter
http://r.ebay.com/owl5dH


BTW where can I find the exhaust mounting bracket?

Here's what I got from a GM Parts Website.

CLAMP. Exhaust System Attaching. .
This genuine part fits your 1997 Saturn SW1 Wagon.
CLAMP,EXH MANIF PIPE.
Stock Code 21012399 ; 21011476
Manufacturer VPI
Categories Exhaust System > Muffler and Pipe
Assemblies EXHAUST

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Have you checked for an exhaust leak?
Exhaust leak check.
--Locate a low pressure high volume air source, reversible vacuum cleaner, large fan, leaf blower or what ever you can find.
--Loosely couple to cold exhaust at the tail pipe, or direct fan at tail pipe.
--Spray every inch of the exhaust between the head and CAT inlet with a mixture of 2 or 3 drops of dish soap and water in a spray bottle.
--Pay close attention to the lower flange, lower support clamp, and flex connector.
--The flex connector is under the protective braid so it requires quite a bit of solution to show any leaks.

A plugged CAT is not likely or even credible if the car drives and revs up under load normally.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

You find one in the scrap yard on any gen-2 or 3 Saturn. Take the entire plate the clamp bracket is bolted top and then use a couple of these heavy duty hose clamps as you will have no luck attempting to use toe original clamp. http://www.mcmaster.com and this part number: 5661K12 you need 2 and you have to tighten them every 2 or 3 days until they completely conform to the bracket and pipe. They will work just fine and as they are completely stainless they can be removed and replaced if required.

You have to actually TEST the exhaust. A leak in the wrong spot will cause the engine to eventually stall and at low RPM your trans oil pressure will be low.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:16 PM   #51
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Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

Thanks for the McMaster info.

Is there a chart anywhere where I can locate Saturn SW/SL/SC bolts and studs specs, cross-references and their McMaster equivalents?

The studs & nuts that connect the manifold to the Flex-Pipe seem very rusty and might have to be replaced.

The GM/Saturn description and part number is:

STUD. Emission Control System. Exhaust Pipe. .
STUD,EGR VLV(03.613). STUD,EXH MANIF PIPE.
Stock Code 21006166

What would be the McMaster Part number?

Thanks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You find one in the scrap yard on any gen-2 or 3 Saturn. Take the entire plate the clamp bracket is bolted top and then use a couple of these heavy duty hose clamps as you will have no luck attempting to use toe original clamp. http://www.mcmaster.com and this part number: 5661K12 you need 2 and you have to tighten them every 2 or 3 days until they completely conform to the bracket and pipe. They will work just fine and as they are completely stainless they can be removed and replaced if required.

You have to actually TEST the exhaust. A leak in the wrong spot will cause the engine to eventually stall and at low RPM your trans oil pressure will be low.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:07 PM   #52
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Still having Low Idle Problem on my 97 SW1 Auto

There is no spec for fasteners that I have ever seen. Saturn definitely kept that in house. They are almost all proprietary parts as well. The fastener standard they used was JIS which is now semi obsolete.

For manifold and exhaust studs and nuts these work. Remember antiseize on the end that is in the block and do not over tighten, just snug.
McMaster part numbers

92905A327 M8 x 1.25 Thread, 50mm Long manifold studs, the 40 or 30mm length may be long enough as well.

95108A102 JIS B1189, M8x1.25 Thread Size, 17.5mm Flange Diameter

Check and verify that the studs are 8mm diameter. I am looking this off of old orders ...
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