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Old 02-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #61
donmega884
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbar View Post
Cool, rule number one: have fun.
I am at drill this weekend (I am a Master Chief Marine Science Technician in the U.S. Coast Guard reserve) but I will be home Monday and will have access to the specific measurements when you get to measuring the "innards" of the beast.
Just remember you can do anything one step at a time.
Nobody can do ANYTHING 10 steps at a time.

RBar

PS: Anyone reading this thread: where EXACTLY WAS that oil spill someone was talking about earlier in another thread?! ;-)


I had a valve cover gasket leak and I was having oil flood out my spark plug chamber. I of course fixed this problem, but idk how long the previous owner had this going on for. It ended up being the same cylinder that had the valve crack.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:53 AM   #62
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Oil on the plug eventually causes problems and if you had a leak bad enough to run out the top that is not a good sign.

Clean the top of all the cylinders and check for any ridge with a fingernail slid up from below. You will feel it if there is one.

These 2 threads cover 2 different approaches to engine overhaul. Worth the time it takes to read all the way through them.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170045
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=145250

It is critically important that you find a competent shop to do the work you can not do yourself. The shop should be a member of AERA and familiar with this cylinder finishing technique. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170383 Go here and follow the links in post #14. Some light reading on pistons/rings/cylinders/ cylinder finish.

Failure to follow these recommendations results in either a failure or a 4000 mile ring seating exercise.

The rings will probably not seat if the cylinder wear is over 0.004" You can clearly detect 0.002" wear at the top ridge with a fingernail.

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Old 02-05-2012, 03:52 PM   #63
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

You have to remove the oil pan to get the rod bolts off to remove the pistons.

If you already have the head off, which you need to do to get the pistons out, it is quite easy to swap a new timing chain assembly for the old one.

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Old 02-05-2012, 06:31 PM   #64
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

OK I think I have a plan together (somewhat)

I was lucky enough to get my hands on a engine hoist, leveler, and engine stand. I wish I had it from the beginning so I could have just pulled the engine out and then take the head off, but o well. I've decided I would just have a shop measure the cylinder bores and hone them. I don't know if I will have the engine boiled or not depends on the price. I will in the mean time just take the block out leaving the trans in ( or is it better to take trans out with block?) From there I will remove oil pan etc etc to get to the pistons, and check those out.

I will be posting more pictures when I get around the car again

*The car is at a friends Garage So I have to work around his schedule*

*Anything else to add to the thread feel free*

Sean

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Old 02-05-2012, 06:58 PM   #65
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Take it out as one piece, engine and trans together.

Boil out the block and go shopping for the right shop as the wrong one will destroy your block by fouling up the hone job.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #66
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

I hear you and you are very likely correct, I just hate disconnecting the axles and all the other attachments...especially with an automatic, and you dont have a bad rear seal, everything else good.
I mean, I do axles when I have to, but I do not enjoy it. I enjoy engines.
I would just carefully unbolt the torque converter and slide it back a bit, and pull what is left of the engine...no head.
With a friend, doesn't really need the hoist...but use it anyway...save your back with or without the transmission.

I nice clean engine IS SOOOO much more fun to work on though!
As for using the guy down the street that could hone badly...I certainly trust myself to be more careful with my stuff than somebody else. He gets paid if done well, or done badly.
Can you tell I have had some bad experiences in the past with "qualified" mechanics?!
I am not an expert, but I try to be careful. The second engine I ever fully rebuilt I still have...and am over 300,000 miles on it after the rebuild. Other than a blown head gasket, no problems. AND, best of all, the oil is still on the mark when I change it every time...NEVER needs oil added between 5,000 mile oil changes. I believe you do not have to be so much good, as careful!

Quote:
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Take it out as one piece, engine and trans together.

Boil out the block and go shopping for the right shop as the wrong one will destroy your block by fouling up the hone job.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

He has a manual and it will not clear the clutch not to mention the realignment with a manual is a nightmare. The chance for error/damage is much higher when you pull just the engine and then try and stick it all back in.

The assembled engine weighs about 250lb and the manual trans is 65lb automatic 75lb.

Use a hoist and you avoid the thrill of breaking expensive things.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Nope, it is an automatic... Still would pull it all at once.

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Old 02-06-2012, 12:34 AM   #69
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Some people's advice are starting to make me think. Not from the forum but friends and family are telling me that rebuilding the engine I'm just gonna open up a can of worms. I believe in my opinion that they car ran really well before the exhaust valve cracked in cylinder one. I mentioned earlier I had an oil leak in the cylinder one spark plug chamber which I think was the reason I had the valve crack. The car is great besides the leaky sunroof that the previous owner didn't seal properly and ruined the ceiling. The only real problem was the oil consumption which was about 1/2 qt early 500 miles or so. I have 166,000 on the engine and I'm starting to reconsider my plan. I've been told at least 10 times to just order the new head throw it on and be done with it. I know it seems like a temporary thing but I don't want to do all this rebuild work and have the trans go or hit a dear lol... So frustrating

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Old 02-06-2012, 01:02 AM   #70
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Have your friends or family ever rebuilt an engine, or are they making the assumption that someone that isn't an ASCE master mechanic couldn't possibly do anything like that without screwing up?

I kinda got that attitude when I started working on the driveline and brakes of my car. No prior experience, everyone assumed I was going to get myself killed. My process was to absorb information about the subject like a sponge before I touched a wrench, mainly from the FSM, youtube, and the master members on this forum. I'd then make a plan, post it here for people to look at and give advice, then execute. If I hit a snag, I'd ask these guys. There's almost always someone on that can help. My success rate is 100%.

I feel if you're willing and have the patience to tread very very carefully in unfamiliar territory, you'll come out on top.

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Old 02-06-2012, 01:08 AM   #71
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

+1^^Good advice.

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Old 02-06-2012, 02:32 AM   #72
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Just take your time and don't rush it and you'll be fine......

...
Ed

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Old 02-06-2012, 08:54 AM   #73
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

I hear you. If you are not confident that you can carefully carry out one step at a time, or you do not have the time, throwing a head on will get you going again...for a while.

If you do throw the head on, might try synthetic oil...expensive if consumption does increase, but if there are any life left in the oil rings, syn may be able to loosen them up and eventually slow down the flow...again, if the piston/cyl gap is not excessive. I have read some people to say that eventually, the oil rings even lose their ability to spring back no matter what is done, in either case.

With the head off, and the car blocked up, engine in car, you are really only talking about an hour and a half, maybe two, of actual work to re-ring from below. You have already done the hardest part!

Understand, if just throw the head on, your oil consumption, the leaky valvecover notwithstanding, will probably increase as a result of this approach.
Think about it...you put a new head on, with improved compression...in both directions, exhaust and on the intake.
Your rings will still be worn/ or somewhat gunked up. You will increase oil blow-by past the rings due to the better compression.
Also, if this occurs, your Cat Converter will eventually degrade due to the burning oil load, so plan on a new Cat converter down the road in addition to the extra oil. DOn't get the cheap $250 Magnaflow, a lot of 'em do not fit.

Oh, another possibility, some say probability, when the Cat Converter gets funky, it will mess with the tuned exhaust system's ability to talk to itself, and adjust fuel mixture, to the rich side. This can (again, some say WILL) eventually burn a valve. And you are back where you are now.

But, you can re-ring next time youdo this, but next time you will almost certainly have to get the engine bored-out as well if you wait that long, if it is even now within specs. If it is not, you have a taper or out of roundness, you may not make another 10,000 miles. But only you can make that decision.

Keep good records...if you decide to dump the car when it has out-lived its usefullness to you, someone else may find the history useful if they want to restore it.

RBar



Quote:
Originally Posted by donmega884 View Post
Some people's advice are starting to make me think. Not from the forum but friends and family are telling me that rebuilding the engine I'm just gonna open up a can of worms. I believe in my opinion that they car ran really well before the exhaust valve cracked in cylinder one. I mentioned earlier I had an oil leak in the cylinder one spark plug chamber which I think was the reason I had the valve crack. The car is great besides the leaky sunroof that the previous owner didn't seal properly and ruined the ceiling. The only real problem was the oil consumption which was about 1/2 qt early 500 miles or so. I have 166,000 on the engine and I'm starting to reconsider my plan. I've been told at least 10 times to just order the new head throw it on and be done with it. I know it seems like a temporary thing but I don't want to do all this rebuild work and have the trans go or hit a dear lol... So frustrating

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Old 02-07-2012, 08:17 AM   #74
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Okay, the more I read the more hat theses cars need to make right... Questions for the day.. who makes and where can we find the new pistons with the drill holes already done. It's obvious that putting the head back on without tending the relief holes your just asking for trouble again.... I've decided to have a shop finish my job starting with rebuilding the bottom end and re assembly of the rest of the engine.. I have a time factor and I want it to be done right...
Next question. I pulled the oil pump apart, it looks fine but I didn't pay attention to which side faces the at you when your looking at it with the cover off as it sits in the pump body/chain cover... I believe its bevel side in the pump body??

Lastly, should we change out the dexcool now. I had a leak when I pressurized the system. And 6 months ago I did a ects n thermostat along with what I thought would be a good thorough flush n dexcool fill... Good luck all , its funny reading these threads almost sounds like its me posting the issues and questions that come up with theses Saturns...

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Old 02-07-2012, 08:25 AM   #75
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Maybe I should proof read my posts before I submit it... Dohh...

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Old 02-07-2012, 04:49 PM   #76
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

OK with my new attitude lol I took everything off and all I need to do now is remove the bolts and away goes the engine from the car. I was looking at it and it seems like it would be easier to remove block from trans and pull out while supporting the trans from underneath. I made only one mistake today and it was breaking a head bolt of the ground wire in the back on the engine lol o well guess I'm took strong sometimes. I managed to get every wire and whatever else that was connected to the block. Tomorrow I should have the engine out with no problem, I already loosened the engine bracket from the passenger side. The pistons don't seem to have much gap in the cylinder bore and they felt smooth with no sharp ridges or anything.


Couple other questions.......

What should I soak my intake manifold in??? There is so much goo in there I would like to have that nice in clean for my new head

what is that gasket between the exhuast mani and the tube do I need to replace that too???


Sean

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Old 02-07-2012, 05:42 PM   #77
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

For what the shop is charging you strip the intake and let them dunk it in the tank. The only thing that you can buy that will clean it is Purple Power and it will etch aluminum so you have to be quick.

You will have to remove that broken bolt from the block. You can pull just the engine but unbolt the intermediate shaft from the block and support the trans. There are 4 bolts that hold the torque converter to the flex plate. Do not pull the TC out of the transmission.

That little gasket prevents an exhaust leak and you can not tolerate any leaks in the exhaust between the head and CAT inlet. Get some high temperature gasket paper and make one.

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Old 02-07-2012, 06:16 PM   #78
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

What about soaking the intake manifold in diesel fuel or gasoline?

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Old 02-07-2012, 06:33 PM   #79
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

Waste of time....

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Old 02-07-2012, 07:00 PM   #80
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Default Re: Cylinder Head Pictures

lol well alright I'll think of something. After inspecting the bores and pistons I really don't think my bores or pistons are bad at all. I still have the I really think that it is just a waste of money for this car. I am pulling the engine so I can put everything on the block with it on the engine stand and then drop the engine in the car and call it good. I know people might think I'm crazy for not getting the bores measured or have the block cleaned but I just have a feeling that taking everything out and re ringing the pistons is just too much money to put in this car. Does this sound that bad???? There had to be many of people that do it this way and don't have any problems for a while. I just don't see anything besides maybe a couple hairline scratches that I can't feel with my fingernail.

Thanks

Sean

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