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Old 04-24-2011, 12:39 PM   #61
Brendo613
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1996 SW2
Default an OBX hopeful

Good to hear I'm not doomed, heh

I don't have anything securing the header to the transaxle. I do think that the header pipes do notclear the engine-transmission reinforcement plate, however. My plan is to disconnect the header / downpipe flange, file away the edge of the engine-trans reinf. plate (which is hitting the 2 exhaust pipes), check the flanges for straightness, and put it back together.

I hope it's not something stupid like a crack in the head / exhaust leak along the EGR pathways or something. The whistling sound's been there since the rebuild. Well, nothing a process of elimination can't rule out. Unfortunately such things as Easter with family, and work must shove around when I get around to doing this

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Old 04-24-2011, 01:42 PM   #62
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1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

That pipe is real close to the plate. Once the bracket is off it should fit though. You do need that bracket.

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Old 04-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #63
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Default leak found

Unfortunately, my elementary stick welding is biting me in the ass: the exhaust leak is at the weld from the downpipe to the cat That sure does hurt, when something is just yer own damn fault, heh. Fortunately, I have a guy who'll touch it up for $25 on Monday - so now, more waiting time.

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Old 04-28-2011, 04:20 PM   #64
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

I usually just get my friend who does welding for a living to fix those things. I just supply the beer and welder.

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Old 04-28-2011, 06:06 PM   #65
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Default welder friends sound nice.

Oh, come come, now - I'm sure you've supplied your share of car advice to him as well

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Old 04-28-2011, 06:24 PM   #66
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

Yes, the last one was how to replace the pump in a Chevy fuel tank.

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Old 04-28-2011, 06:45 PM   #67
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1996 SW2
Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Yes, the last one was how to replace the pump in a Chevy fuel tank.
1. Remove fuel tank filler cap and retain.
2. Remove Chevy with faulty pump from garage and discard.
3. Pull Saturn or other suitable vehicle with working fuel pump into garage.
4. Install fuel filler cap on working replacement vehicle.

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Old 04-29-2011, 12:19 AM   #68
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

That was my recommendation for a 4wd Dodge he was driving for awhile. The Chevy was a "will not start or starts and dies" but has gas at the rail and spark, pressure 40psi and the design is 60. Local rock pronounced the 40 good enough.... It would run on staring fluid though.

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Old 05-02-2011, 08:09 PM   #69
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Default we are crazy for doing this

Chevy's have their place, somewhere. Are you all not Don McLane fans?

Okay - quick update time. Weld has been touched up, to no avail (nor surprise). I was monitoring fuel trim on the trip home - long term bottomed out at zero, with short term / short term b1s1 reaching as low as -%50. After a steady amount of throttle being opened, and despite variations in the short term trim adjustments, the value reaches 0%. I think it's because of a steady amount of throttle being applied over a fixed amount of time. Also, MAP readings are around 8-10 in/hg at idle once warmed, and at full throttle a$hole driving they never topped above 30. They do really respond with a crack of the throttle, however - I do realize how much this seems like a vacuum leak. The carb cleaner spray test should have ruled out gasket and hose leaks, but maybe the extra heat from the hose bursting leaves me with a hole / crack somewhere in the manifold? Also, the car definitely is running rich. Short term fuel numbers plummet at steady throttle until a miss begins on cyl #1.

So, still thinking ECM - tried a noid light on cyl 1's injector and it looked fine, also. Definitely was dim at idle, and brightened up with more revs, but maybe it just couldn't respond to the pulse with an accurate visual correspondence. Okay - so ECM / associated wires to and from, or ... uh ... I dunno. Maybe I've been thinking about this for too many hours.

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Old 05-02-2011, 08:28 PM   #70
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1996 SW2
Default Re: we are crazy for doing this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendo613 View Post
Chevy's have their place, somewhere. Are you all not Don McLane fans?
It's McLean. And yes, I remember the song; "Pushed my Chevy into the levee, but...."

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Old 05-02-2011, 09:43 PM   #71
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1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

The MAP should be reading absolute pressure, check what your reader is reporting. A 8 to 10 in Hg absolute would be good idle vacuum. Cruise SFT value is dumped into LFT cruise table and SFT is zeroed about every 3 minutes. If it is walking off the paper lean like you describe it has to be an independent sensor that is doing it. Monitor the AVERAGE bank 1 sensor 1 O2S value.

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Old 05-03-2011, 07:29 PM   #72
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

The PCM doesn't rely on input from the upstream O2 sensor until it's warmed up though, right? The misfire exists way before the car's warm, which is why I figured my (new) O2 sensor plays no part in the miss - also, it runs the same plugged or unplugged.

I have questions about these following ECMs on ebay: ECM 1, ECM2, ECM3. How can I determine if these will work with my car? I can't find a swap guide wiki entry or anything that specifies how to read the part numbers on the ECM, assuming there is any part # decoder.

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Old 05-03-2011, 07:52 PM   #73
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1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

The fact it mises with the O2 sensor disconnected does tell you that is is not the PCM driving the system lean. It is either mechanical or ignition (ICM or wiring) or fuel. Have you swapped injectors, verified fuel pressure and swapped out ICM? It is possible the PCM could be doing this but not real common failure mode.

PCM must come from a car with the same transmission, engine, and year. The 96 and 97 PCM is electrically identical but will have a different flash in it and the 97 will not function correctly in a 96 until re-flashed. http://saturnwiki.org/index.php/PCM_Identification scroll down on the page. This will give the initial flash codes and from them you can figure out what engine and trans they are flashed to. Whatever you end up doing you will be paying for a dealer relearn on the box before it is right.

Those are about the weakest eBay adds I have seen recently.... Most places will tell you what they pulled it out of at least.

With the car off disconnect the front O2 sensor, pull the PCM B fuse for a couple of minutes and replace, then start car ands see if it mises.

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Old 05-03-2011, 09:56 PM   #74
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

The left column is the recent flash, and the right column is the part number? Going by the right hand column number / service PCM part #, ECM #1 is for a '98 SOHC manual, ECM #2 and #3 are both for a '96 DOHC auto. Cool. My block was from a '97, though my car's a '96. I'm just having trouble figuring what factors other than VIN and crank relearn really matter as far as the PCM "matching" my engine. Anyway, at least the crappy ad has been sorted through, heh. Gotta keep looking through ads for a PCM.

The O2 + PCMB reset test yielded nothing. And, OldNuc, this is the curse of you helping so many people on here - you forget where my sorry tale leaves off Mechanical theory - compression checks out okay, and problem goes away invariably when car is driven hard / revved up. (Also the miss will go away after a bit of part throttle cruising, though it'll be missing the whole time before that.) Fuel theory - injector #1 has been swapped back to an old one - no avail. Haven't checked fuel pressure yet. I may be incorrectly assuming that it's okay because I've replaced the FPR, injectors, fuel filter, and the car performs fine when hammered - and I'd assume if there were a lack of fuel pressure, that wouldn't be possible. Ignition theory - ICM, coils, plugs, wires - all have been new / swapped / tried old units in their places.

Avg O2 readings - I think my scanner only shows realtime readings. Hey, new thought - with it running so rich, maybe I should just slap a turbo on it, embrace the error, and call it a day.

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Old 05-03-2011, 10:23 PM   #75
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

And, that leaves fuel pressure. When you stomp the gas the regulator opens up as it is controlled by manifold vacuum. Could be a fuel pump going away or a failed fuel filter or mis adjusted regulator. They are adjustable... Harbor Freight 92699, pressure tester and you need to check it while you are experiencing the misfire. Have you checked that the MAP seal is intact?

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Old 05-03-2011, 10:35 PM   #76
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

Li'l red MAP rubber was fine. Fuel filter & pressure regulator were replaced as part of the diagnosis, so unless the new units are failing ... hmm. well I just need to run a pressure test

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Old 05-03-2011, 11:03 PM   #77
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

Without a pressure test you have no idea what it is. Failed filter has happened before...

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Old 05-05-2011, 03:15 PM   #78
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Default more oooops

Riddle: what happens when you combine a misfiring engine, daily commute (with more verve in driving style than the commute warrants), and a still-unplugged upstream 02 sensor (due to negligence after the previous test)? Ding ding ding! A bright red cat, and half throttle to maintain idle. So, the weld I just had touched up is going to be cut apart to replace the cat ... cause the engine generates 200 psi on all 4 cyl w/ an open throttle compression test, and the exhaust smell is fuely and smells unconverted. Oh, and when it was glowing bright red on a 2:00 PM sunlit day, white, chemically-stinky smoke was billowing from all areas of the exhaust.

Like I said. Oooooops.

These look nice, though. 1-4, L-R. Left is definitely sootier than the others. No surprise there


Last edited by Brendo613; 05-05-2011 at 03:19 PM.. Reason: to include pic of spark plugs

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Old 05-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #79
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

Running a bit rich in open loop there. Open loop should be reasonably close to what you need. It is possible that your fuel pressure is excessive or the ECTS is telling a big fat lie. A rich condition will cause misfires also.

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Old 05-05-2011, 03:20 PM   #80
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Default Re: P0301 cylinder 1 misfire, 2000mi after full rebuild

It's definitely running rich. ECTS reads well on the OBDII scanner I have though. If it were reporting bogus numbers to the computer, wouldn't it be read bogus numbers on the scanner?

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