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View Poll Results: What sucks the most about the ION?
The ages 3-11 Steering Wheel by 'PlaySkool' 15 28.85%
The interior in general 3 5.77%
The centermount gauges and ugly center stack. 6 11.54%
Baby got back! Too much Junk in the trunk! Additional Parking in rear! 2800lbs?! 4 7.69%
The too big RADs on the coupe. 1 1.92%
The "coupe" styling that looks like a sedan. 4 7.69%
Twisted beam rear suspension 1 1.92%
Hey! Where's the rear discs!?!?!? 3 5.77%
137HP? That's it? With this caboose? 8 15.38%
Lack of a sport or 'halo' model 7 13.46%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-30-2002, 05:38 PM   #1
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Default The Good, The Bad And The Ugly ,part 2

Ok, here's your chance to ***** about the ION! What really stinks about the ION? I know Ive got plenty to list. Feel free to add your own.

I forgot to add the Poll on the other thread, so ignore the other Part 2 until Charlie can delete it.

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Old 03-30-2002, 06:14 PM   #2
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Too late - I already posted there. I vote for the guages and steering wheel as the worst.

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Old 03-30-2002, 06:16 PM   #3
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Piney, I moved your comments over to this thread...the other one was missing the Poll.

Quote:
I'll go first:
1. The lack of power relative to its class.

2. The Firestone tires.

3. Those silly removable roof things.

4. NO SPORT WAGON!!!!!!

5. That steering wheel.

6. That dash.
Ive asked Charlie to kill the other one.

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Old 03-30-2002, 06:54 PM   #4
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There are some things that I like about the ION and some that are less than ideal. Overall I think there is more positive than negative but at this point I also want to know the price. If it is priced right I believe it will sell.
I think Saturn is making a big mistake however if they don't offer a sport or halo edition early on in the ION's life. Value, economy and other practical features help general sales but it never hurts to balance that with something that also creates legitimate excitement and performance. With this car, Saturn needs to create special editions that offer more than unique paint jobs.

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Old 03-30-2002, 07:45 PM   #5
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PG, this poll is really funny! Thanks for the laugh. Good idea to do 3 parts to keep the pros and cons apart.

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Old 03-30-2002, 08:08 PM   #6
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Amen on the Rear Discs and the lack of a Sport Wagon.

You are preaching to the choir, brother!

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Old 03-30-2002, 11:16 PM   #7
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I voted for a sport model. I don't think the ION needs any performance enhancements outside of a special model. As I said before, a different model or a distingushable trim line is needed. And who's to say Saturn isn't already planning this? They haven't released any information on option groupings or trim lines. We've seen specifications, but they may not include optional enhancements.

I do notice that some IONs have white faced gauges and some do not. Will they be put in a "sport" package with more than just looks?

Saturn has always had two engine options. Will Saturn offer only one with the ION, the 140hp (or 137hp, depending on your source) 2.2 Ecotec? Why are two automatics offered (VTi and 5-sp)? The 5-sp auto is going in the uplevel model. Why? Could it be that the uplevel model has too much power for the VTi?

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Old 03-31-2002, 12:41 AM   #8
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According to the saturn reps at the ION display at the New York auto show. There will be just be one engine. the 2.2 with 137/hp and 142/torque. they gave it to me in wrting with the hand out also.

I voted for the Halo model. Because I like everything else about the ION. That and the SKY was just a few yards away with specs in the brochure for it as a supercharged 2.2 with 180/hp and 190/torque. four wheel discs and 18' wheels with Z rated tires. struts in front and multi link rear suspension. 5 speed stick.

since saturn has it for the SKY why not put it in the ION as a performance trim level is beyond me even if I don't wan't or can't afford one myself. There is defintley a market for it. After seeing every other compact car with a performance model from the turbo S beetle at 24 grand to the civic Si at just under 20. It really puts things in perspective seeing every brand of car at once in the same place.

Now I literally have about 15 punds of brochures I dragged home to go over

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Old 03-31-2002, 01:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankeez
That and the SKY was just a few yards away with specs in the brochure for it as a supercharged 2.2 with 180/hp and 190/torque. four wheel discs and 18' wheels with Z rated tires. struts in front and multi link rear suspension. 5 speed stick.
Did you get to see the engine in the SKY? I smell bull**** HP. What other BS was in the brochure?

Why one engine? That sucks. That's going to compress the range for Saturn models. How much extra are you going to pay for the uplevel ION if its just the same as the ION base powerwise?

BTW, if the SKY ever gets built, it won't have that multilink rear. They'll use the same minivan grade rear suspension that the ION is. And that stupid steering wheel.

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Old 03-31-2002, 01:27 AM   #10
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You couldn't actually touch the ION's or SKY which where on turntables, fenced off.

All the other saturn models where free and open. Including the new l series. I still don't like the copy cat front end headlights from other brands.

anyway, the saturn rep said the SKY was a concept car. but gave me a SKY brochure with these specs printed on it.

" A new kind of roadster"

2.2 ecotec supercharged engine with 180 hp & 190 torque

5 speed manual

front wheel drive

traction control

"heavy use of aluminium to reduce unsprung wieght for better handling"

independent front strut suspension

multi link rear suspension

front disc brakes-vented and cross drilled

rear disc brakes-vented

four channel ABS brakes

high strength steel spaceframe with composite body panels

center mounted instrument cluster

active matrix LCD dislplays (whatever that is)

drivers side rear access door

movable tonneau cover for two or four seat appearence

"Z-rated tires for superb grip in spirited driving"

18" aluminum wheels -- 5 spoke

length 165"

width 69.5"

hieght 51.6"

wheelbase 102.4 "

wieght 2300 LBS

The saturn reps wouldn't allow any poking or prodding of the car or thier minds. I tried. everything i posted here was printed on a SKY handout given out by Saturn corp.

i specifically asked about engines choices for the ION and was told only one engine rated at 137 hp "with strong low end torque providing exceptional lauch acceleration" that is a direct quote from the ION handout along with everything else I ""

some of it was very funny in that corny saturn way

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Old 03-31-2002, 01:35 AM   #11
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Maybe the Saturn is positioning the ION with less-than steller performance so it doesn't cross markets with another upcoming Saturn model...

I wonder how seriously Saturn (and GM) is thinking about building the Sky.

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Old 03-31-2002, 01:47 AM   #12
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Default The Sky is only a concept

The Sky *concept* is based on the current Opel Astra coupe platform, using a multilink rear independent suspension. If the Sky goes to production, a BIG IF, it will use the Delta platform with the suspension in the Ion.


...

-1998 Black Flamenco Pearl Honda Accord EXv6 sedan

-2000 Dark Blue Saturn LW1

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Old 03-31-2002, 07:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by spencerb
Maybe the Saturn is positioning the ION with less-than steller performance so it doesn't cross markets with another upcoming Saturn model...

I wonder how seriously Saturn (and GM) is thinking about building the Sky.
Depends on how well the ION goes over. If ION flops, no SKY. If ION does good, I expect we'll see a watered down SKY...which is hillarious, because I think the specs are already pretty wattered down. Usually the show car has very wild specs. You usually ask for more than you know you'll get, so it pays to "ask for a lot" to begin with It would likely use everything ION, including the ION interior and mechanicals. I think the SKY already has the ION dash, just with the TFT replacing the analog gauges.

Boring......

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Old 04-01-2002, 08:25 AM   #14
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The ION will be a hot seller IMHO. The sedan looks amazing and the average schmuck will see the HP increase and think, "hey groovy", not realizing the ION ate a bunch more cheeseburgers during production.
Either way, I think it will sell way better than the S series has. There may be a handful of people here who hate it but judging by the tons of marketing force Saturn has behind them now, it'll be a hit.
The biggest sucky thing for me is the big RAD doors. I actually sat in an Echo yesterday and the centre IP ain't that bad. I love the ION interior, the styling of the coupe has really grown on me (except the rear end) and the optional 16" wheels are a good thing. HP/weight ratio is acceptable, but like I said before, if I wanted a performance beast, I'd get a Mustang GT or Trans Am or something like that...

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Old 04-01-2002, 10:59 AM   #15
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I currently don't really like anything about ION. The only way I would consider it is if they used the engine from the SKY concept as an upgrade package:

2.2 ecotec supercharged engine with 180 hp & 190 torque

Even at that point, the ION would have to go through a large amount of refinement before I would drive away with one.

But who knows, maybe things like this just grow on you. You know, like music. You may not like a song the first time you hear it but the radio stations drive it so far down your throat eventually you start to like it. It is all Psychology in that it is a conditioned response. We are being conditioned to be familiar with a product from repeated exposure and get use to it and possibly like it as a result. It is not only Psychology it is basic marketing so what can you do?

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Old 04-01-2002, 01:30 PM   #16
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Question

Someone here knows better: Will the IONs have NO REAR DISCs at all, not even with ABS option? That's really another turn off.....

Anyone has more info about the Beam-axle thing (or even Pictures) in ION too?

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Old 04-01-2002, 08:14 PM   #17
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What's NOT to like about the ION?

1. 140-HP is all we get, no turbo (better than 137, but still nothing to crow about)
2. That steering wheel. 'Nuff said.
3. It weighs 2750 pounds and the increased length is all front/rear overhang, especially in the quad-coupe.
4. They ditched the 130MPH speedo for a 120MPH unit.
5. No rear disc brakes!

More on my auto show visit in another thread.

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Old 04-02-2002, 11:33 PM   #18
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Its a giant ugly miata? *hide*

Heck, I would take a honda del sol tho.

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Old 04-03-2002, 03:59 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Ecator
Its a giant ugly miata? *hide*

Heck, I would take a honda del sol tho.
Civic del Slow? The targa roof was pretty cool...Honda should have adapted the styling from the Del Slow to the Civic Coupe...although still rather conservative, it at least had some character. The few I still see on the road have been riced out to the max, or are getting rusty.

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Old 04-03-2002, 05:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Gravity
Civic del Slow? The targa roof was pretty cool...Honda should have adapted the styling from the Del Slow to the Civic Coupe...although still rather conservative, it at least had some character. The few I still see on the road have been riced out to the max, or are getting rusty.
Honda del Slow ? I thought it was del Soak because the targa tops were prone to leaking.

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