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Old 08-21-2009, 01:09 PM   #1
blooddrench
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Default Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Hello,
I'm creating this post to ask for the help of the saturn minds here. I have a 2002 Saturn SL2 with 99k whose auto trans just went bad. to the tune of warn gears and slam shifting. 2300 at the dealership to fix. This wont even be considered being I've never taken my car in to be worked on. I found these.....

MANUAL TRANSMISSION Saturn S Series 98 99 00 01 02:eBay Motors (item 120451066027 end time Aug-21-09 10:07:41 PDT)

**edit** should I buy a mp2 already with a welded diff pin? or get the phantom grip? Where can i get a phantom grip and do i have to have the diff pin welded still?

This is the manual trans, I would like a mp2 because of the lower gear ratios. Would I be better off going to the pick-n-pull and pulling a trans? I hate going thru the work and taking off trans that is faulty to begin with.

Also, should i do the TSB about the pinion gear and shaft?
differentracing.com/tech_articles/TSB/99-t-12.html

and finally I would like a 6 puck clutch and an aluminum flywheel. I found this package.. What do you recommend?

F1 STAGE 3 CLUTCH KIT& ALUM FLYWHEEL 00-02 SATURN 1.9L:eBay Motors (item 400061816869 end time Sep-12-09 16:48:34 PDT)

I also read on a post that TSR made a conversion kit for all the other parts required but they are no longer online to my knowledge. And ooh yes I have most certainly read the Different Racing tutorial. Does anyone sell the parts in a kit, as in the linkage for the pedal/shifter/assorted pieces/etc? I also need to get a catalytic converter Because i already have 2 1/4 from the cat back, and i bought the OBX header last fall and thats been sitting in my closet.

I am also aware i need to weld the differential pin for best performance and would love some pointers there.

Also will the Automatic ECU be an issue? I know that the park/neutral safety switch needs to be addressed.

I appreciate any and all help. Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
MANUAL TRANSMISSION Saturn S Series 98 99 00 01 02:eBay Motors (item 120451066027 end time Aug-21-09 10:07:41 PDT)
1991-2002 will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
**edit** should I buy a mp2 already with a welded diff pin? or get the phantom grip? Where can i get a phantom grip and do i have to have the diff pin welded still?
Unlikely you will find one with the diff pin welded in place already. And dont bother with the Phantom Grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
This is the manual trans, I would like a mp2 because of the lower gear ratios. Would I be better off going to the pick-n-pull and pulling a trans? I hate going thru the work and taking off trans that is faulty to begin with.
You'll save a bunch of money this way. With manual tranny's, if its doesnt have a hole in it, it's usually OK.

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Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
Also, should i do the TSB about the pinion gear and shaft?
differentracing.com/tech_articles/TSB/99-t-12.html
There are two designs. 1991-1998 and the updated 1999-2002 design. With the first design, diff pin failures a mostly caused by abuse or sudden loss of traction on both front wheels then suddenly gaining traction of one wheel. With the newer "better" design, the diff pins can come out whenever they feel like seeing the light of day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
and finally I would like a 6 puck clutch and an aluminum flywheel. I found this package.. What do you recommend?

F1 STAGE 3 CLUTCH KIT& ALUM FLYWHEEL 00-02 SATURN 1.9L:eBay Motors (item 400061816869 end time Sep-12-09 16:48:34 PDT)
Unless you plan on a high horse power turbo or nitrous build motor, get a stock flywheel and aftermarket stock replacement clutch/pressure plate. The six puck clutch an aluminum flywheel are a waste of money for your application.

Quote:
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And ooh yes I have most certainly read the Different Racing tutorial.
Cool. I'm happy we're able to help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
Does anyone sell the parts in a kit, as in the linkage for the pedal/shifter/assorted pieces/etc?
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
I am also aware i need to weld the differential pin for best performance and would love some pointers there.
See my website for tranny disassembly.
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...sassembly.html

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Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
Also will the Automatic ECU be an issue? I know that the park/neutral safety switch needs to be addressed.
I wouldn't recommend it. Performance will slightly suffer plus you run the risk of over revving the engine and BOOM.
...
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Quote:
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1991-2002 will work.
Wasn't the mount point for the ignition module different in '91? 'Course, the likelihood of the OP finding a good tranny from a '91 in a yard is slim
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Quote:
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Also will the Automatic ECU be an issue? I know that the park/neutral safety switch needs to be addressed.
I wouldn't recommend it. Performance will slightly suffer plus you run the risk of over revving the engine and BOOM.
Not to mention the SES light will be on perpetually.

As for the neutral switch, it doesn't go thru the PCM. That's just a simple set of contacts on the switch on the automatic tranny. On that connector, it's either two purple wires, or purple and yellow. Just jumper those two leads, either with a short piece of wire with two male terminals, or a 30A maxifuse that happens to fit the connector, or cut and solder and heat-shrink insulate.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

alright then, i'll hit a pick n pull this week probably, If i snag a manual ECU, does it have to be for the specific manual tranny? also do i need to get a new wiring harness? Thanks for the help

Last edited by blooddrench; 08-21-2009 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

The PCM doesn't talk to the manual tranny, but it needs to be for a DOHC engine. And as mentioned above, you should get the BCM from the same car.
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Quote:
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Wasn't the mount point for the ignition module different in '91? 'Course, the likelihood of the OP finding a good tranny from a '91 in a yard is slim

The ignition modules mount in the same spot for all years. In 1996 they were turned 180 degrees. But there is a provision for the front mount used only in 1991's that can get ing the way of the 1996+ ICM's because the electrical connector is on the bottom rather than the top. Even though only 1991's used this mount, I think the provision for it is on tranny's up until 1993. It can be cut off though. I've put a 1992 manual into a 1999. I just cut off the mount.

For stuff like this, even though old stuff will work, you always want to find the newest one with the least amount of miles on it. Especially if junkyards there are like the ones here where year or mileage doesnt effect the price.
...
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Quote:
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alright then, i'll hit a pick n pull this week probably, If i snag a manual ECU, does it have to be for the specific manual tranny? also do i need to get a new wiring harness? Thanks for the help
You should get a PCM from a 2002 SL2, SW2 or SC2 with the same options as your car. No need for the wiring harness, but like madpogue said, grab the BCM too. Its under the top dash pad, towards the center of the car, attached to the frame cross member.
...
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Alright, I am getting the all the parts shipped to me not including the trans, clutch and flywheel. I for sure want an aluminum flywheel. I've seen fidanza and F1 Racing. Is there anything wrong with f1 racing or are they subpar quality? they dont look as beefy as the fidanza flywheel. does anyone have feedback on these? And what does the community recommend for a moderately modified saturn clutch? I saw exedy oem clutch and F1 has a few options.

Last edited by blooddrench; 08-21-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

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Not to mention the SES light will be on perpetually.
Actually, I can tell that that isn't true from experience.





Light bulbs burn out eventually. lol
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

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I for sure want an aluminum flywheel.
Waste of $$$$

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does anyone have feedback on these?
Good for high HP builds. Terrible for a daily driver. Too fast of a rev down time. You'll be happier with a stock flywheel. Plus a Saturn stock flywheel isnt that heavy.

Quote:
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And what does the community recommend for a moderately modified saturn clutch? I saw exedy oem clutch and F1 has a few options.
Stock replacement. LUK or Valeo
...
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooddrench View Post
I for sure want an aluminum flywheel. I've seen fidanza and F1 Racing. Is there anything wrong with f1 racing or are they subpar quality? they dont look as beefy as the fidanza flywheel. does anyone have feedback on these? And what does the community recommend for a moderately modified saturn clutch? I saw exedy oem clutch and F1 has a few options.
Waste of money or not I like it. Don't entirely care for the gearing of a 6spd with only 5 gears (as the MP3 are) but I'm getting used to it. I started out with a MP2, after me & a friend killed the MP7 my '93 came with and recently changed the engine and put the MP3 in.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

You ended up liking the mp2 better than the mp3?
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

The MP3 is growing on me but the only real time I notice a difference is cruising in 5th gear (the MP2 5th results in the engine turning ~500 rpm less at any given speed) or mountain climbing. Acceleration on a flat may be technically increased but it feels slower as I have to shift much more often. I liked hitting ~65mph in 2nd gear, can't do that anymore
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The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

This may be slightly off topic, but has anyone tried a SOHC motor with an MP3 trans?
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Which trans would give you more power from a dead stop? the mp3 or mp2? I dont care about doing over 100
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

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Which trans would give you more power from a dead stop? the mp3 or mp2? I dont care about doing over 100
From a dead stop up to what speed? Neither gives you more power, but the mp3 is better for acceleration in general.
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

I was trying to choose the trans which has lower gears, as in 2nd gear doesnt take me up to 55+ like the auto. I want it to be geared for acceleration, not top speed.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

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I was trying to choose the trans which has lower gears, as in 2nd gear doesnt take me up to 55+ like the auto. I want it to be geared for acceleration, not top speed.
Then you want the MP3.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

Does anyone around have an mp3 with the differential pin already welded? It's a task I am not looking forward to finding someone to do. I dont have the resources available to do the welding myself.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:59 AM   #20
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Default Re: Swapping auto to Manual, Need help!

I'm positive my winter antics would have blown the diff pin in my transmission if it was truly an issue: Stuck in driveway? Back/slide into snow bank, punch it, swings the front around (it'd be fun, but I'm usually pissed about not making it on the first try). Stuck mostly in a ditch facing downhill but have to back uphill to get out? Punch it and hope for the best. Bored with nothing better to do then test the traction of studded 195/75R14's? Punch it and see if the tires spin.

Just don't be stupid with burnouts and avoid the 3rd gen manual transmission's, going by Low Saturn's post about the redesign.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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