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Old 08-15-2010, 07:24 PM   #1
helloitsmorning
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Question Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Well I have an '04 Vue, and just today, I was out and about driving for about 3 hours, then I went into a grocery store for about 20 minutes and it wouldn't turn on. It would appear to, then a few seconds later all but the service and battery light would go off. And it would shake pretty bad (kinda like how it does when you push the wrong security button deal) and that would last for about a minute then it would die. My car has about 110,000 miles, but it was serviced about 1,800 miles ago, and they checked the fluids, and everything's square. It's never done anything like this before, nor was there any warning or progression into it.

My check engine light was on about 2 weeks ago, I posted a thread on here about it, but then it went off about a week ago, so I just forgot it ever happened.

From reading some of these threads, it seems as if it might be the timing belt? That was one of the codes from the engine light I believe.

I would really appreciate any help. My cars currently sitting in a parking lot, and I do not want to pay $98 for firestone just to tell me what's wrong. I'm going to be going to it tonight to sneak a peek at the timing belt and such, is there anything else I can look for? Or has anyone else had this problem?

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Old 08-15-2010, 07:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Did you have the timing belt done at all?

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Old 08-15-2010, 07:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Did you have the timing belt done at all?
What do you mean?

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Old 08-15-2010, 07:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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What do you mean?
At 100,000 miles the timing belt in the V6 Vue's is due to be changed. If the timing belt does go, it can mean catastrophic failure to the engine, requiring a rebuild or a brand new engine. I'm hoping that isn't the case for you. Did the truck restart since this issue?

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Old 08-15-2010, 07:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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At 100,000 miles the timing belt in the V6 Vue's is due to be changed. If the timing belt does go, it can mean catastrophic failure to the engine, requiring a rebuild or a brand new engine. I'm hoping that isn't the case for you. Did the truck restart since this issue?
Well, I don't have a V6, and when I got my car serviced last they checked all the fluids and junk, you think they would have noticed the timing belt? Maybe?

I wasn't aware it had to be changed, I haven't done so. Nope, I tried about 5 times, and it just wouldn't start. One of the times I let it roughly shake until it died though :\.

When I look at the timing belt, do I just check if it's loose? If the little teeth are worn down? I mean, are there any definite signs?

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Old 08-15-2010, 08:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Well, I don't have a V6, and when I got my car serviced last they checked all the fluids and junk, you think they would have noticed the timing belt? Maybe?

I wasn't aware it had to be changed, I haven't done so. Nope, I tried about 5 times, and it just wouldn't start. One of the times I let it roughly shake until it died though :\.

When I look at the timing belt, do I just check if it's loose? If the little teeth are worn down? I mean, are there any definite signs?
Sorry, I assumed you have the V6 since your profile on the side states 2004 3.5L.

No you wouldn't notice the timing belt when it is in for just fluids. The timing belt is inside the motor and ensures your pistons and valves don't come crashing together. You are thinking of the accessories belt which allows everything to run like water pump and alternator.

Based on what you are saying though, it sounds like the fuel pump could be toast. As long as the engine is okay, it has to be either fuel or spark. Something is not allowing the truck to continue running. A check of fluids would not have caught anything like that.

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Old 08-15-2010, 08:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Sorry, I assumed you have the V6 since your profile on the side states 2004 3.5L.

No you wouldn't notice the timing belt when it is in for just fluids. The timing belt is inside the motor and ensures your pistons and valves don't come crashing together. You are thinking of the accessories belt which allows everything to run like water pump and alternator.

Based on what you are saying though, it sounds like the fuel pump could be toast. As long as the engine is okay, it has to be either fuel or spark. Something is not allowing the truck to continue running. A check of fluids would not have caught anything like that.
Ahh someone on here told me it was a 3.5L? I really don't know.

Interesting. I called firestone and the lady said it sounded like a fuel pump problem too. Do you know of any ways I could check that myself?

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Old 08-15-2010, 08:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Ahh someone on here told me it was a 3.5L? I really don't know.

Interesting. I called firestone and the lady said it sounded like a fuel pump problem too. Do you know of any ways I could check that myself?
If you have the 4 cylinder it is a 2.2L. If you have a V6 it is a 3.5L.

I believe there is a method to check the voltage going to the pump, but I'm not exactly sure myself. Someone else on here will know better than I will.

With most vehicles, when you go to start the car, just prior to turning it over, you can hear a noise as the pump engages. I don't know the 2.2L enough to know if it will make enough noise to notice or not. If so, that is a cheap and easy way to know.

I had a Sunfire quite a few years back that had the pump die on me. Definitely sounds similar to what you are experiencing.

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Old 08-15-2010, 08:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Quote:
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If you have the 4 cylinder it is a 2.2L. If you have a V6 it is a 3.5L.

I believe there is a method to check the voltage going to the pump, but I'm not exactly sure myself. Someone else on here will know better than I will.

With most vehicles, when you go to start the car, just prior to turning it over, you can hear a noise as the pump engages. I don't know the 2.2L enough to know if it will make enough noise to notice or not. If so, that is a cheap and easy way to know.

I had a Sunfire quite a few years back that had the pump die on me. Definitely sounds similar to what you are experiencing.
Ahh okay, I will post another topic tomorrow and find out.

Where do I listen to the noise? By the gas hole deal? My friend actually suggested that earlier.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helloitsmorning View Post
Well I have an '04 Vue, and just today, I was out and about driving for about 3 hours, then I went into a grocery store for about 20 minutes and it wouldn't turn on. It would appear to, then a few seconds later all but the service and battery light would go off. And it would shake pretty bad (kinda like how it does when you push the wrong security button deal) and that would last for about a minute then it would die. My car has about 110,000 miles, but it was serviced about 1,800 miles ago, and they checked the fluids, and everything's square. It's never done anything like this before, nor was there any warning or progression into it.

My check engine light was on about 2 weeks ago, I posted a thread on here about it, but then it went off about a week ago, so I just forgot it ever happened.

From reading some of these threads, it seems as if it might be the timing belt? That was one of the codes from the engine light I believe.

I would really appreciate any help. My cars currently sitting in a parking lot, and I do not want to pay $98 for firestone just to tell me what's wrong. I'm going to be going to it tonight to sneak a peek at the timing belt and such, is there anything else I can look for? Or has anyone else had this problem?
Don't worry about a timing belt - the 2.2 has a timing chain and would be practically indestructible. Your symptoms could be caused by fuel or electrical problems. I'll look for your previous post to check the codes.

I'm baffled by your statement "pushing wrong security button deal". Could you clarify that a bit?

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Don't worry about a timing belt - the 2.2 has a timing chain and would be practically indestructible. Your symptoms could be caused by fuel or electrical problems. I'll look for your previous post to check the codes.

I'm baffled by your statement "pushing wrong security button deal". Could you clarify that a bit?
Ahh I'm really trying not, supposedly it costs about $1,000 to have fixed? That is great to know!
Okay, well I'm going to try and listen to the fuel pump tonight, I'm guessing replacing the fuel pump would be a ton cheaper than a belt.

Haha my car has this contraption on the keyring, that has two buttons. You have to push the left one before you turn the key to start the car, or it does pretty much what my car is doing now, shakes and doesn't drive. I thought all vues had these! It's really pretty silly, and usually a hassle.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=157108

The link to the post.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Ahh okay, I will post another topic tomorrow and find out.

Where do I listen to the noise? By the gas hole deal? My friend actually suggested that earlier.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.
I read the list of codes you previously posted.

I've seen those posted by at least one other member and the problem was traced to a bad crankshaft position sensor (CKP). I don't believe the CKP is difficult to replace for the 2.2, but must say I've never replaced one - but am relying on service manual instructions.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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I read the list of codes you previously posted.

I've seen those posted by at least one other member and the problem was traced to a bad crankshaft position sensor (CKP). I don't believe the CKP is difficult to replace for the 2.2, but must say I've never replaced one - but am relying on service manual instructions.
And that going bad would cause this problem?
I've seen other posts with them as well, and most of them ended up just being faulty reads, or fake codes, or whatever.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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And that going bad would cause this problem?
I've seen other posts with them as well, and most of them ended up just being faulty reads, or fake codes, or whatever.
No code is 100% lead-pipe cinch but they generally point you to right area.

I checked one of the on-line parts places (RockAuto) and they have five different brands of crankshaft position sensors - lowest price is around $12 and highest is $25.

You could probably check with your local parts places (NAPA, Advance, O'Reilly's, etc.) to find the best price.

Would you be changing the part or do you have a mechanic?

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Old 08-15-2010, 10:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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I don't believe the CKP is difficult to replace for the 2.2, but must say I've never replaced one - but am relying on service manual instructions.
Disregard the above ... I finally removed the rose colored glasses.

The service manual says to remove the starter to access the CKP. This is no step for a climber but you'll need tools and willingness to lose hide around the knuckles.

There's also a requirement to complete a CKP relearn procedure - I've noted where some of the really smart members say the relearn isn't necessary but the procedures mention it none the less.

Would you like the service manual extracts?

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Old 08-15-2010, 10:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Well, I just went to my car, and it started right up. Oddly enough, there was a guy in the parking lot who came over and asked what was up. He said that it was more than likely the starter solenoid. (Keep in mind, that one of the codes that came up on my car was a solenoid deal.) That, because I was driving around for hours, and it was so hot, that the solenoid over heated? And that it's perfectly normal?

Have you heard of anything like this?

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Old 08-16-2010, 06:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Well, I just went to my car, and it started right up. Oddly enough, there was a guy in the parking lot who came over and asked what was up. He said that it was more than likely the starter solenoid. (Keep in mind, that one of the codes that came up on my car was a solenoid deal.) That, because I was driving around for hours, and it was so hot, that the solenoid over heated? And that it's perfectly normal?

Have you heard of anything like this?
I'm glad the Vue started ... BTW - starting after cool-down is one symptom of a failing CKP (along with a dozen other potentials).

I don't believe there's a code for a starter solenoid.

The starter solenoid provides for smooth engagement of the starter with flywheel when you turn key to START. You mentioned engine cranking OK, but running rough, so the starter wouldn't be on my list of likely suspects.

I'm still trying to get my mind around that switch on your key fob. Are you using the keyless entry switch to lock vehicle but then inserting the key in door to gain entry? (If so, does your horn work)?

When you insert the key in ignition and turn to ON (not start) ... does dash symbol with car and pad-lock (security) remain on or flash?

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Last edited by far2grumpy; 08-16-2010 at 06:58 AM..

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Old 08-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

Is it really? I was out today with it, and I started it, and got straight to the AC, and after a minute of extremely hot air blowing on me, I realized my car died again :\. But it started right back up, and I had no other problems.

I'm not sure what a CKP is, or how to check if it's bad and such.

Haha here's a picture:



The other black deal, besides the auto lock, is the security thing. You have to push in the left button before you turn the key to start the car. If not, it'll idle really rough and not drive. Still confused?!

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Old 08-16-2010, 08:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Car died randomly after sitting in parking lot?

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Is it really? I was out today with it, and I started it, and got straight to the AC, and after a minute of extremely hot air blowing on me, I realized my car died again :\. But it started right back up, and I had no other problems.

I'm not sure what a CKP is, or how to check if it's bad and such.

Haha here's a picture:



The other black deal, besides the auto lock, is the security thing. You have to push in the left button before you turn the key to start the car. If not, it'll idle really rough and not drive. Still confused?!
Regarding crankshaft position sensor ... enter the term in google for a very good Wikipedia explanation.

Your Vue obviously has some type aftermarket remote start and / or security system. I've not put one of these on a Saturn and am not sure I understand how the added system interfaces with Passlock. So, I'll hush so those who are familiar can lend support.

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