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View Poll Results: What car should I get next?
2003 ION Sedan 10 16.67%
2003 Vue AWD 4 11 18.33%
2003 L200 7 11.67%
2003 L300 19 31.67%
2003 Vue Sport Package 13 21.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2002, 03:41 AM   #1
XtremeGrandAm
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Question Which one would you choose?

Ok everyone pending the stuff with my car. I'm getting a lot of reports from other Grand Am owners of power steering going out on their cars. So most likely im going to be in the market again for a new car.

I really dont want to go out of gm for a car...But I want suggestions. My car was about $21,200. So it needs to be just about that much or less.

I'd like to come back to saturn....I know I had a bad experience but I really like the new cars/suv. So heres the vote in the poll and post anything that not on the poll. I appreciate the help.

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Old 11-17-2002, 09:44 AM   #2
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Since I have a '99 Grand AM GT1 I would appreciate a link to those power steering problems. I don't think the Grand AM has its own power steering pump so I am a little dubious, even hopeful that the reports are in error.

Regarding the choice of next car, tell us how many miles a year you drive, with what kinds of loads on what kind of surfaces, etc. For instance I have soon to be 8 grand children and probably should be looking at the new Saturn full size van On the other hand I have made three emegency cross country trips to baby sit grand child numbers 1, 3, and 5 and when your driving 12-13 hours day at speeds close to 100 at times you tend to want a 6 cylinder, etc.

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Old 11-17-2002, 10:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by haypops
Since I have a '99 Grand AM GT1 I would appreciate a link to those power steering problems. I don't think the Grand AM has its own power steering pump so I am a little dubious, even hopeful that the reports are in error.

Regarding the choice of next car, tell us how many miles a year you drive, with what kinds of loads on what kind of surfaces, etc. For instance I have soon to be 8 grand children and probably should be looking at the new Saturn full size van On the other hand I have made three emegency cross country trips to baby sit grand child numbers 1, 3, and 5 and when your driving 12-13 hours day at speeds close to 100 at times you tend to want a 6 cylinder, etc.
its just peoples experience with their own cars. Ive gotten a lot of email from the people at GAOC saying they have had there power steering go out. When I said reports i didnt mean anything official...just other peoples experience. Which is enough for me

I dont have loads of people in my car usually but I have been known to take long trips. Lets see I drove my car 9,600 miles in 4 months. So that puts me at almost 29K a year.

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Old 11-17-2002, 11:21 AM   #4
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WOuldn't you want a V6 over a 4?

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Old 11-17-2002, 12:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Swizelman45
WOuldn't you want a V6 over a 4?
That I am at a toss up. The ecotec engine is really amazing. And I have been very satisfied with its performance. But I love our L300 so really I dont know...Have any of the original L-Series people reported any problems with the L81 engine?

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Old 11-17-2002, 01:25 PM   #6
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Oh, decisions, decisions! I'm changing careers and am in the process of applying to grad schools. I also need a new car. Grad school could take me anywhere from Tempe, AZ to Toronto, so even the color of the car and the upholstery is up in the air. The Saturn I like the best, the LW300 (I appreciate the convenience of a wagon and the open feeling inside the car), isn't on the list, but that's what I would opt for all things being equal. However, if I end up staying in New York City, it would be a VUE, because the painted bumpers and wrap-around headlights on the L are just too vulnerable to parking damage. In the snow belt 4WD would be useful, especially if I end up living a ways from campus. I definitely would like something larger and more powerful than my present SW2. I'd like a car in which I couldn't tell that the AC was on every time I hit the accelerator. But then the cost of gas is rising and who knows what war in the Middle East may do to supply! Maybe an ION...but then it would be a first year beta tester.

I feel a certain loyalty to Saturn, its excellent service, and durable polymer panels. I just wish they'd play to my own prejudices by offering a sport wagon with a normally aspirated V6, 5 or 6 spd manual transmission with full-time all-wheel drive and stability control in the $25-30 K range. Then all I'd have to worry about is whether to get a light or dark colored car, cloth or leather.

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Old 11-17-2002, 02:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by medium red

I just wish they'd play to my own prejudices by offering a sport wagon with a normally aspirated V6, 5 or 6 spd manual transmission with full-time all-wheel drive and stability control in the $25-30 K range. .
Just yesterday I was listening to a call in talk radio show about automobiles (local) and one of the callers was inviting suggestions for a manual transmission wasgon of the hosts. They responded that the listenener should get over the desire for a manual shift car, that the trend was away from these and towards sequential shift computer controlled and shifted manumatc. By the way the hosts always suggest a wagon when someone asks about an SUV without a clear need for one, and usually suggests the Saturn L.

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Old 11-17-2002, 02:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01SC2boi
its just peoples experience with their own cars. Ive gotten a lot of email from the people at GAOC saying they have had there power steering go out. When I said reports i didnt mean anything official...just other peoples experience. Which is enough for me
If you continue to be concerned about the power steering pump reliability issue, then you should probably skip the L series as it may well have the same or similar pump. The VUE and ION would be the only cars amune as they have electric steering.

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Old 11-17-2002, 03:50 PM   #9
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I'd have no trouble accepting a true computerized sequential shifting system which uses a real (athough, computer controlled clutch). If it's good enough for Ferrarri, it's good enough for the likes of me. Manumatics let you play at shifting through the gears, but are really automatics and shift like automatics. You're really just telling the automatic when to do its thing (although most have built in restraints on what you can get it to do) so they can't really offer a sportscar experience. Unless laying rubber is your idea of sport, I don't see using the clutch pedal as more than a usefull skill. Shifting, however, can be an art. I'll happily let the onboard computer take over managing the clutch.

That said, a traditional manual transmissions with a clutch is much cheaper to repair than any other system; and manual cars are less likely to be stollen because few joyriders know how to drive stick. The downside of all automatic systems is that they make driving easy, allowing drivers to do other things at the same time -- like talking on the phone while making turns -- when they should be concentrating on the road.

Last edited by medium red; 11-17-2002 at 03:58 PM..

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Old 11-17-2002, 03:59 PM   #10
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medium red: thanks for clearifying the nomenclature, it was indeed the computerized sequential shifting system which was being discussed.

I never thought much about the stolen car thing, interesting.

The newer automatic transmissions have replaced the hydraulics for shifiting with electronics. This has made them more reliable and cheaper to repair. if one adds in the frequency of clutch replacements for the typical driver, I think the automatic transmissin is actually less often in need of repair than the manual.

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Old 11-17-2002, 05:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by haypops
If you continue to be concerned about the power steering pump reliability issue, then you should probably skip the L series as it may well have the same or similar pump. The VUE and ION would be the only cars amune as they have electric steering.
I dont know how the Grand Am's steering works the steering pump is conected to the engine itself....I dont even know if it is a pump...Im not worried abut the L-Series.

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Old 11-17-2002, 05:39 PM   #12
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Weren't you the one that was accused of painting your brakes?

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Old 11-17-2002, 05:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by VUE WATCHER
Weren't you the one that was accused of painting your brakes?
haha.........

Lol-no that wasnt it..They said because my calipers and stuff were painted that, that was why my rotors were warping. No they accused me of braking some pin on my brake assembly when they did it when they were fixing my car. If I had broken it before I got there I wouldnt have had any brakes...it was really stupid....that really surrpised me to hear you say that...I about fell of my chair laughing.

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Old 11-17-2002, 05:58 PM   #14
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glad u got a good laugh lololol

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Old 11-17-2002, 06:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by VUE WATCHER
glad u got a good laugh lololol
With everything that was said that day at the dealership you can only laugh.....You have a great memory.

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Old 11-18-2002, 09:32 AM   #16
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Seems kinda silly to want to get rid of it because of problems other people have had with it. Have you had an indications of this problem with your GA so far?

You already lost 4K or so on getting rid of the SC and probably will lose the same if not more getting rid of this one. Grand Am's don't hold their value very well. If money's not a big deal, what the heck.

If you leased the GA, it'd be easy, just get someone to take the lease over but unless you get rid of the GA privately, you'll get screwed on the trade.

But to ANSWER the question, you seem to like the coupe quite a bit so why not wait till the spring and get the coupe?

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Old 11-18-2002, 09:52 AM   #17
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Well,based on my experiance with it,I wouldn't have a problem recomending the ION to anybody.In fact I'm getting ready to head on over to the dealer this mourning to try and finish up a deal on one. The test drive I took the other night totally convinced me it's a great car.I drove it pretty hard and it responded.You're right about the Ecotec being an amazing engine,it was nice and smooth in it's power delivery.And at the 5 speed auto shifts pretty smooth as well for what it's worth.Didn't drive the 5 speed.Center IP only bothered me for about the first few minutes,as I kept glancing over at it,but after that it seemed really very normal.It seems to be set just low enough to not interfere seeing out and just high enough that it's pretty easy to read with just a glance.I saw just make a big ol' list of cars,and go drive 'em all if you really feel the need to buy again.That's the ONLY way I feel that anyone can really buy a car that fits them.

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Old 11-18-2002, 10:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by germ
.In fact I'm getting ready to head on over to the dealer this mourning to try and finish up a deal on one.
Will that make you the first Saturnfans member to get an ION?

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Old 11-18-2002, 10:42 AM   #19
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from those choices i'd pick the ion sedan. i've driven one finally! with the 5-speed manual. it's sorta weird with the cluster in the middle but i supposed you'd get used to it. when i was driving i didn't really look at the speedo and tach much which could mean trouble since i was speeding the entire time. btw the upshift light was funny. it's a circle with a + in it instead of an arrow pointed up. the clutch was even lighter to press than the current s-series which is way lighter than my 96 sc2 which is lighter than my old 92 sc was. folks complaining about pressing the clutch pedal need to stop whinning and try the latest s-series and new ion clutch. anyhow, the ion sedan shifter worked great. the ecotec seemed quieter and smoother than the saturn 1.9L dohc. it was weird. the ion sedan definately feels bigger than the s-series. hopefully the quad coupe sits lower or at least feels like it sits lower. i'm used to my 92 and 96 coupe and like them low slung.

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Old 11-18-2002, 11:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01SC2boi
That I am at a toss up. The ecotec engine is really amazing. And I have been very satisfied with its performance. But I love our L300 so really I dont know...Have any of the original L-Series people reported any problems with the L81 engine?
The L81 is about the only thing I haven't had problems with on my 2000 L. I would avoid any of the L's due to steering rack and vibration/cupping problems. The VUE is too big and gets too low gas mileage for me. The ION would be closest to ideal, but it is a first year car, and given my experiance I wouldn't dare try it now.

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