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Old 09-14-2002, 02:31 PM   #1
Mark92SC2
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Default GM Tech Rally update........ECOTEC IS UNBELIEVABLE!!!

:o: You would not believe what I saw at this semiar.Chev Cavalier,2.2 ECOTEC motor,8.41 seconds,175 mph,1050 HP!!!!!
What an amazing display of engineering.The motor is pretty much stock with exceptions to cylinder sleeves,pistons and con rods and forged crank.It is a dry sump system with a massive turbo and NOS.They use a 4t65 Pontiac GTP engine transmission as well that is lightly modded.GM will have tons of Performance upgrades and instructions on how to build that same motor.These guys arent secret about anything.Look out BIG blocks!
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Old 09-14-2002, 04:54 PM   #2
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How much you want to bet that engine gets rebuilt almost weekly? That is a pretty impressive power output, but that kind of gain makes we wonder about reliability. You might be able to go faster, but rebuilds will murder your elapsed time.
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Old 09-14-2002, 06:19 PM   #3
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I think that is a setup for professional drag racers only. The life of that engine will probably be measured in minutes at most, probably more like seconds between teardowns. The ecotec probably does have a lot of "upside" in power potential, but don't expect to build a 1000hp street motor.
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Old 09-14-2002, 09:30 PM   #4
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I heard somewhere (I believe I found it somewhere on the Saturnfan's website) that the Ecotec has produced up to 800 horsepower in a Chevy Cavalier, and one version produced 650+hp, in a Pontiac Sunfire. Both engines had a lifespan of like 52 weeks or something like that. I don't remember the exact numbers, but for that amount of horsepower, that's quite a while for a "mostly stock" engine to last.

I only wish Saturn would have designed their own motor to put into their cars, instead of GM adopting the ECOTEC to put in all their cars.
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Old 09-15-2002, 03:33 AM   #5
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2002 VUE 2.2L
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EcoTecs are pushing 283 HP on the stock rods.
~D.J.~
...
2012 Mercedes Benz C250 Sport Sedan
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2002 VUE FWD4m - Gone but not forgotten. 5/14/2002 - 10/31/2011
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Old 09-15-2002, 04:01 PM   #6
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They rebuild after 35 passes.Not because they had to,they just picked that number.
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Old 09-15-2002, 10:56 PM   #7
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I'm just curious as to how an engine with completely upgraded/replaced bottom end internals is referred to as "mostly stock!!??)
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Old 09-15-2002, 11:38 PM   #8
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Stock block,heads,camshaft,main bearings,cam chain.The Sunfire uses stock oil pan an pump.Maybe "mostly" was wrong choice of words.But still a durable engine.
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Old 09-16-2002, 07:24 AM   #9
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yeah change that to "somewhat stock" engine... my bad...

The "mostly stock" was quoted off the article, that's how they described it.
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Old 09-16-2002, 10:35 AM   #10
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Reminds me of the older movie "Cannonball Run." A competitor gets pulled over and the cop asks him what he is running. He shrugs and says "ehh... stock."
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Old 09-16-2002, 12:43 PM   #11
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Here's the facts as I have them first hand and been witness to if for over a year now.

Ignore the 1050 HP numbers of Lingenfenter and GM Racing. Those numbers are possible and the parts are available, but it's for racing not street.

Also remember these vehicles all have 2 MAJOR modifications that are beyond the scope of the street vehicle.
1. Methanol
2. Dry Sump
3. Accel DFI VII <- Stand alone also

Now Marty's '03 Sunfire is wet sump still, and making over 800 HP, but it's tuned on Methanol.


So for a street vehicle the facts are this:
You can pump 275 hp out of the motor STOCK for a limited time, and it will last for a season of racing at 250 HP.
If you are looking at serious long term then putting 200 to the wheels is a solid solution on a STOCK motor.
Once you want to get serious then just running Crower Rods and JE Pistons will net you 350 HP.
Upgrading to a SCE copper Head gasket, and or the Dalton sleeves can put the motor to a place where the crank becomes a weak point along with the standard Crower/JE set-up.

Used Motor - $800 <-ebay
Crower Rods $800 <-AVAILABLE
Eagle Rods $500 <-AVAILABLE
JE Pistons - $700 <-AVAILABLE
SRP or Ross Pistons $500 <-AVAILABLE
Dalton Sleeves $800 <-AVAILABLE
SCE Copper HG $100 <-AVAILABLE
Total Investment: $3200

The above items, the remaining OEM parts and the labor time to build it and you have an engine that is 100% capable of producing 600 HP. We’re not talking NHRA Alcohol standards either, we’re talking Sport compact superstitions. Not many people know this, but it’s very bad ‘mojo’ to open up an engine at the drag strip and most teams only have one back-up engine for the whole year.

Slap a T4 Turbo or XB-1A blower on it and you are looking at a VERY competitive Sport Compact racer for the Street or Hot Rod Class. Heck with a good engine management system you could even run a heavy dose of N02 alone and make crazy power.

OK, so not everyone has the skill or resources to do the Dalton sleeves, O-ring the block, etc. Just the Eagle Rods and SRP pistons are $1000 and you're still looking at 350 HP potential. The "H" beam rods and SRP pistons are not designed to handle much more than 350 hp, but more than enough for 85% of the people looking to make it happen.

Driving a FWD vehicle with 350 HP on tap is impossible to comprehend for most people and impossible to deal with. I'll be honest unless that 350 hp is controlled like with a Supercharger you are looking at a rolling death box.

Like I have been harping for over a year now if there is an event in your area with the GM Racing team running you MUST attend. Everyone from GM Racing is very approachable and more than willing to tell anyone anything they want to know. There are no Secrets or Magic powder used on the engines to make them go, well unless you think of a stand alone as Magic. At this point if you think stand alone PCM’s are then you have no place in the Scene anyhow.
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Old 09-16-2002, 06:00 PM   #12
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Idea

EcoTech is superb!

Now the problem is, even though GM or other aftermarket can offer a bunch of affordable HP upgrade kits to snap on the EcoTech in VUE or L200, the cheesy Hydramatic tranny running in these Saturn cars just won't dig it.

We do have a serious bottle neck in the transmission area, the ceiling limit for this tranny is up to current L81 V6 only.
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Old 09-17-2002, 08:48 PM   #13
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Excellent response Adam!!You definetly know your stuff.A good tranny upgrade would be the Olds Aurora tranny.The biggest heaviest tranny GM has!Tough too!!
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Old 09-18-2002, 03:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qlara
EcoTech is superb!

Now the problem is, even though GM or other aftermarket can offer a bunch of affordable HP upgrade kits to snap on the EcoTech in VUE or L200, the cheesy Hydramatic tranny running in these Saturn cars just won't dig it.

We do have a serious bottle neck in the transmission area, the ceiling limit for this tranny is up to current L81 V6 only.
The manual SAAB transmission of the L (don't know about the ION) will hold all the power you could want out of a street driven hopped-up Ecotec motor. I'm actually getting a bit excited about the whole thing!!!

Alex Plaster
97 SC2
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Old 09-19-2002, 10:49 AM   #15
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The sad thing one of the only American sold GM vehicles with the SAAB F25 is the L series. That's honestly a great 5 speed and I could go on about that bad boy too. It's featured in the Astra, Vectra, and SAAB 9-3.
Quaife makes both a LSD and 6 speed grear kit with BTCC certified ratios. The LSD is inexpensive, but the gear kit tips the scales in at like $4500 after it's imported.

On the other side of this is that the ION, Cavalier, VUE, Sunfarter, etc all get the GETRAG. It's not that popular, but it's derrived from a Munci design purchased a few years back and turning out to be a solid unit. The LSD for this trans is available now from Quaife also.
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:12 AM   #16
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It's amazing the F25 tranny can handle what it does. The darn thing is tiny. Almost looks like it belongs on a lawn tractor.
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