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Old 05-02-2018, 10:49 AM   #1
white2008saturn
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Default 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

I am trying to find out the specs on correct fuel pressure for a 2008 Saturn Vue XE? With key on and just priming pump, it reads 60 and then while driving it stays steady at 43-44. Is this normal? I ask because I have negative (-6.3 bank 1 and -3.1 bank 2) long term fuel trims on start up/idle. No trouble codes, just drive-ability issues (shudder as if torque converter issue). Any assistance is appreciated.

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Old 05-02-2018, 10:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Tried justanswer.com or other online services? The best source of info if you cannot find an answer is with a subscription to alldata or Mitchell.

As to using stft or ltft, I haven't found them useful as they're broad based to interpret several things at once. I tend to use all the sensors coupled with car history and maintenance along with symptoms to determine what's wrong. Error codes also helps. I'll give you an example of why I don't use stft or ltft.

A member using his scantool posted his data including engine symptoms. I saved baseline data from my scantool and we compared notes. His maf sensor was incorrectly outputting signals. Without baseline data to compare his against mine, guessing was inevitable. Seeing how a maf sensor is supposed to output at idle, we determined his was faulty. New one corrected his problem. Attempting to use stft or ltft would probably become an endless round of armchair quarterback guesses.

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Old 05-03-2018, 09:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Appreciate it...i will look at MAF output

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Old 05-03-2018, 11:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Please don't use my example of maf sensor comparison as your problem. I don't know enough to make a guess about your maf sensor being faulty. What I was suggesting was searching to find out what your fuel operating pressures are.

On public forums, no one sees or hears your Vue so your descriptions are needed along with car history for anyone to make any assessment. Mileage, maintenance history, parts replaced, etc..

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Old 05-05-2018, 08:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

The spec fuel pressure for the 2008-9 XE is 50-60 psi. To check if this is your problem, you should fill the gas tank and run it close to empty. The symptoms should get worse as the tank gets close to empty.

The MAF is a possibility and so are the heated oxygen sensors. If you have access to a scan tool, the MAF should read 2-6 g/s at idle and respond smoothly and gradually to increased throttle. The O2 sensors should respond quickly to a change in throttle.

Your long term fuel trim is not excessive but two easy things I would suggest checking are for a dirty air filter and leaks in the air cleaner outlet duct - look for loose clamps and cracks in the duct.

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Old 05-14-2018, 07:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Greatly appreciate the feedback on the fuel pressure...i have a scan tool and it has been consistently been at 43/44 psi...when key on and engine off it is roughly 56/57 or so...MAF at idle (628 rpm) is at 5.36 g/s and increases accordingly...pre-cat o2 sensors bounce back and forth more so in the rich range of .7 and .8 but do bank 1 sensor today on a drive dipped down to .1 range?...i have a new air filter, throttle body, 1 yr old MAF and MAP, fuel injectors, etc. New (correctly gapped )sparks and coils. The issue that I am experiencing w the vehicle is that the car will at times bog down(drop in rpm and hang around 1200-1500rpm) and feel like a misfire when attempting to accelerate. This seems to feel more noticeable when in automatic mode vs manual shift on this car. I will also get same bog/drop in rpm when taking off from a stop and making a left turn. Any help is muchly appreciated.

ps fuel trims on the drive today were a bit better with -1.7 to -4.7 on Bank 1 and -0.8 to 0.0 on Bank 2......not sure if it got more cleaned up after wiggling of MAF wires over weekend

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Old 05-16-2018, 10:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Other than the left turn problem, it sounds like it could be a sticking cam position actuator valve. There are two, intake and exhaust. Fairly common problem on the 2.4. I had the intake fail on my VUE, at 64,000 miles. It and a bad a/c expansion valve are the only repairs I've needed in 9 years.

Biggest symptom I had was occasional trouble climbing hills. No OBD codes until finally after several months it set a P0010. There is a procedure to check them if you have a bi-directional scan tool.

Part nos are 12655420 and 12655421. I went ahead and changed both of them. They are not hard to change but you have to take the air intake and engine cover off to get at them.

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Old 05-16-2018, 07:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Once again, much appreciated...driving today while in automatic mode it is more pronounced as a stuttering at times at moderate acceleration (i guess that it could make sense that it seems to drive better in manual "thumb shift" since i can lengthen shifting between gears). The VUE is a 3.6L w 177K miles. I will look into tomorrow if I get a chance...after changing out appropriate cam position sensor, does the car (timing chain etc) need any particular calibration?

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Old 05-17-2018, 07:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Oops, when I saw XE I thought "4 cylinder". There were actually 2 versions of V6 in 2008-9 VUEs- a 3.5 liter for the XE 4wd and a 3.6 liter for the XR. They used different spark plugs so you may want to double check you have the engine you think you have and that you have the right plugs.

I have the 4 cyl and am not that familiar with the V6s - but I think the cam position system is basically the same for all of them. GM calls it VVT for Variable Valve Timing. The system uses engine oil to operate an actuator to change the position of the camshaft relative to the crankshaft. The problem parts on the 4 cyl are the solenoid operated valves that control the oil flow to the actuators. The V6s have the same kind of valves, only twice as many (a set for each engine bank). They are harder to access on the V6 (I think).

The part nos I gave are for the 4 cyl. Problems should set an OBD code - P0011 or P0021 for intake, P0014 or 0024 for exhaust. There is a diagnostic that you can run if you have a bidirectional scan tool. If a valve is the problem you should not have to do anything other than replace it - no calibration.

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Old 05-18-2018, 12:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by white2008saturn View Post
Greatly appreciate the feedback on the fuel pressure...i have a scan tool and it has been consistently been at 43/44 psi...when key on and engine off it is roughly 56/57 or so...
You have a scan tool that can display fuel pressures? This implies your car has an electronic fuel pressure sensor to monitor pressures on the fuel rail. This may be a new addition to EFI systems.

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Old 05-20-2018, 03:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Actually any of the newer "enhanced" code readers that can display "live" PID data should display (or be programmable to access) fuel pressure since it is one of the standard PIDs.

The older model Actron I use (don't know what model it is) displays fuel pressure (unfortunately in kPa instead of psi).

For all the 2008-9 VUEs except the 3.6L, the fuel pressure is read from a sensor in the fuel line in front of the gas tank. The 3.6L also has a sensor in the fuel rail. I hope this is correct, the shop manual is not exactly clear. Per the manual the expected fuel pressure reading you would read with a scan tool with engine idling at normal operating temperature is 43-45 psi.

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Old 05-20-2018, 04:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

^ Thank you for the info. My 'database' is limited (GM service manuals up to 2005), zero access to alldata or Mitchell, and any online info that isn't 'fake'. For whatever reasons, 'fake' is now synonymous with political news. I would only accept your assurances of actual fuel pressure sensors on specific model Vues since you mentioned detailed info.

As far as my limited database and knowledge goes, there are no electronic fuel pressure sensors for the EFI system or OBD II readers to display operating pressures (25-90 psi) for Saturns up to model year 2005. And to remind anyone reading these posts, this is not about the low pressure/vacuum sensor mounted on fuel tanks for the emissions evap system. Those sensors are measuring below 3 psi or 5-12 in hg (vacuum). Up to model year 2005, Saturns required an external fuel pressure gauge connection to the fuel test valve to measure pressures.

Its encouraging for any manufacturer to add fuel pressure sensors to measure/monitor fuel rail pressures, perhaps as another aid in OBD II diagnostics. I wonder if other manufacturers are using similar sensors for the fuel system.

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Old 05-21-2018, 02:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Back to the original question, I have a Scangauge and lo and behold it displays fuel pressure (in wholesome natural PSI, no kPa krap)

I plugged it in when I drove today, pressure at start was 58.8 psi and idle was 43.4 psi. Lowest fuel pressure I observed was 42.6 and highest was 43.9. A couple of runs at roughly 55% TPS for 5 to 10 seconds with no pressures less than 43. So white2008saturn's pressures do in fact look normal.

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Old 05-26-2018, 06:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Sorry I had not replied...busy..I have an actron scan tool but have not had any trouble codes? Did your cam position actuator valve that was sticking throw a trouble code?

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Old 05-27-2018, 03:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2008 Saturn Vue Xe fuel pressure

Yes, P0010. Had the symptoms a while before it showed the code.

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