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Old 04-11-2001, 02:33 PM   #1
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Default Gas mileage and future gas prices

I heard on the radio during lunch that "they" are projecting gas prices to be avg $2/gal some time this summer, and that some areas could see $3/gal. I hope that Saturn starts gearing the low-end cars for mileage vs performance. I know my LS could get 40 mpg with the appropriate gearing, and the SL could push close to 50mpg. That would be a real incentive for people to visit the local Saturn Store. The mileage of the SL was what brought me in in the first place, and the mileage of the LS was second best behind Chrysler which was not even considered due to reputation. I will admit I have been dissapointed with the mileage of my car. I average 28mpg in mixed driving. The best I ever saw was 35mpg cruising on the hiway.

Anyhow, food for thought.

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Old 04-11-2001, 03:37 PM   #2
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97 sc2 5-speed 33city / 42 highway

also have a suzuki street bike that gets 70-75 mpg city or highway

I actually hope that gas prices go up because I can afford it with my saturn and street bike - maybe it will teach a lesson to those who drive gas-guzzlers especially SUV drivers!

$0.02

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Old 04-11-2001, 03:47 PM   #3
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32-34 mpg on my 2000 SL2 in a 60/40 highway/city mix. Being in Chicago, we're probably (again) going to have the highest gas prices in the continental USA. To the $3 a gallon, I have 2 words: <b>BRING IT!</b> My Saturn mocks OPEC and "the man". Eat my dual overhead cams you greedy fatcats!

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Old 04-11-2001, 08:48 PM   #4
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Right you are about gas prices. Right now, in the San Francisco east bay area, the average price for Regular is about $1.90!!
And they are warning us to be ready for $2.50 to $3.00 per gallon this summer. Greedy oil companies, they have NO idea what their piggy styles can do to the national economy. We shall see.

By the way, there is a fairly new COOL and FREE website where you can look up gas prices for anywhere in the US and Canada. However, they need USERS to enter and maintain. If enough people use it, this will be valuable information.

It is www.driveandsave.com

Check out the gas prices for Pleasanton, California. Yikes!

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Old 04-11-2001, 09:16 PM   #5
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I can get 30MPG+ on a 100% highway trip in my 99K mile SW2 but in my daily 100% city driving with all trips under 2 miles I have "only" been getting around 20MPG - which SUV drivers would kill for. That's because my catalytic converter never warms up, by the way.

Americans are such suckers. My folks ran a (full sized) van conversion business until the gas crises of the late 1970s killed off the full sized van craze overnight. Next everyone bought minivans and compact trucks, then it was full size pickups and SUVs. The carmakers will start a new fad (compact crossover vehicles?) because the market is saturated with trucks, which will not wear out for a long time so, BOOM, the gas prices will go up again and people will abandon their SUVs and trucks for smaller vehicles, or the next marketing fad. Cars are great, and give wonderful freedom of mobility. A nice car (which I think my SW2 is) can be a pleasure to drive. But cars are a rapidly depreciating asset and if you are never without a car payment then you are spending a lot of extra money that you could be using for lots of more important stuff, like saving for your retirement, your kids' college, or your aging parents healthcare. A Saturn will easily last you 100K to 200K if you take a little care of it. Mine will pass 100K in the next couple of weeks and it looks new and runs great. Even if I start driving more than the 6500 miles I drove last year I won't be caught by a gas price hike because I took that into consideration before I bought my Saturn in 1993 (and I expected prices to be much higher by now).

Just my $0.02.

Jim

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Old 04-12-2001, 12:50 AM   #6
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<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
By the way, there is a fairly new COOL and FREE website where you can look up gas prices for anywhere in the US and Canada. However, they need USERS to enter and maintain. If enough people use it, this will be valuable information.

It is www.driveandsave.com<hr></blockquote>

There's another website that does the same thing, but I'm not sure it includes Canada: <a href="http://www.gaspricewatch.com/" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.gaspricewatch.com/</a><!--auto-->

I know somebody who religiously logs prices when he's driving around, but it seems too troublesome for me. Driving any distance for cheaper gas seems to cancel the savings (wear and tear, mileage depreciation, affect on insurance premiums). Most gas stations I frequently drive by are within a few cents of each other, but I know of a couple which are regularly up to 10 cheaper, so I try to time my fillups when I'm in that area.

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Old 04-12-2001, 07:22 AM   #7
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I live out side NYC and the prices went up 5 cents in just one day. The prices are a little over a $1.50 (the lowwest. Most are at a $1.60 or higher. Looks like a rough summer

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Old 04-12-2001, 07:29 AM   #8
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their $#X@*$#@!X% US!!!! so, we go over, spend umpteen billions of dollars bailing their ass's out when iraq takes over and this is what we get?! i think fuel should be locked at .50 a gallin and if they dont like maybe we should invade kuwait.
who makes these calls anyway? except for our allies who else cared about them in their little sand country? no-one, and how do we get repayed? dumped on.

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Old 04-12-2001, 09:12 AM   #9
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Gotta love Sam's club- $1.24 per gallon of regular. Or maybe its Texas I think my city milage sucks. I do not think I get much higher than 20-25. Perhaps I just do not think about how far I really drive during that time. I shoiuld test my milage.

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Old 04-12-2001, 09:55 AM   #10
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Georgia has some of the lowest gas prices in the country. I paid $1.29 last time I filled up, although I probably could've cut it further if I shopped around.

The quickest way to drop high gas prices would be to reduce the gas tax. While I'm all for a 1.6 trillion dollar tax cut on our income, perhaps they should instead consider killing the 40 or 50 cents we pay for each gallon. Or at least reduce it so that the consumer conversion from big SUV's to higher mileage cars is not so jarring. Plus, while some tax cuts appear unfair - a gas tax reduction affects the middle and lower class directly by freeing up extra income and the upper classes by avoiding a possible economic slowdown and soft stock market.

Why does Europe pay 5 dollars a gallon for the same gas we pump? Does the United States get group discounts? No, instead European gas is taxed 300 percent to pay for socialized medicine and a welfare state and the Europe economies suffer.

Just my two cents.


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'00 LS2 5 spd

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Old 04-12-2001, 10:12 AM   #11
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I watch all those big gas eating SUV's. We have to blame ourselves and how we waste energy. We should have learned a long time ago. If gas is too cheap then we waste and buy boats on wheels. Let's get the MPG's up. Then we pollute less too. The oil companies are taking advantage too and any company is out to make the most profit (ie. Drug companies)

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Old 04-12-2001, 10:22 AM   #12
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<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
their $#X@*$#@!X% US!!!! so, we go over, spend umpteen billions of dollars bailing their ass's out when iraq takes over and this is what we get?! i think fuel should be locked at .50 a gallin and if they dont like maybe we should invade kuwait.
who makes these calls anyway? except for our allies who else cared about them in their little sand country? no-one, and how do we get repayed? dumped on.<hr></blockquote>

The number one country the US imports oil from is Canada. We get more of our imported oil from non OPEC countries than we do from OPEC. Also we import more oil from Canada and Mexico combined than we do from all of the Persian Gulf countries combined.

We aren't being stuck by countries, we are being stuck by companies.
<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/energy.overview/aer1999/txt/aer0504.txt" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/energy.overview/aer1999/txt/aer0504.txt</a><!--auto-->

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Old 04-12-2001, 10:31 AM   #13
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Well, as long as we're going to continue burning fossil fuels, and as long as fuel prices continue to rise, I'd at least like to see the value of my Exxon-Mobil shares rise! I wonder if I should have sold when it hit 95 a few months ago. (I hope that doesn't make me too much of a hypocrite, believing in environmental protection and owning Exxon stock!) Anyway, I'm definitely glad I've got a fuel efficient car!

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Old 04-12-2001, 10:31 AM   #14
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I really doubt that rising gas prices will cause people to ditch their SUV's in favor of small cars, or even smaller SUV's or wagons. Think about it, back in '98 gas cost 90 cents a gallon (outside of Philly at the time), now it's $1.50 in that same place. Did the price increasing by 66% cause people to stop buying SUV's? Nope, in fact they continue to sell more than ever.

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Old 04-12-2001, 01:58 PM   #15
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If it hit $3.00 a gallon and it cost over $100 to fill a tank I believe people (some) would dump those monsters. They also pollute more. I laugh when people say they care about the enviroment and drive a big SUV that dosen't have to meet the same pollution standards as a car. How many SUV's in Europe?

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Old 04-12-2001, 02:51 PM   #16
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Since I picked up the new Sl2 I have not seen too many gas stations. Is there a problem? lol
Getting 32 mpg mixed city/highway and it is not even fully broken in yet.

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Old 04-12-2001, 03:04 PM   #17
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With much higher gas prices, yes, people do seem to just keep on spending their money on SUVs and other vehicles with poor gas mileage. Regardless of what people drive, it will effect nearly everyone who drives.

What will happen is that people will have to shuffle their personal finances around....put less $$ into their retirement, put less $$ into the stock market or other investments, cut back on junior's college fund and perhaps send him/her to the junior college for a few years, cut back on vacation spending (I know many who are already scaling WAY back on vacation plans), holding off on buying that new vehicle. It is all economics.

Right now, our government is primed to make the fat cats fatter, taking a bigger cut of the oil money, perhaps in an effort to help Mr. Bush get his tax reductions in place so he can say he did so. Using high prices as an excuse to give back to the people, when in reality, that same tax reduction will not help the average taxpayer but for a few hundred dollars.

So, gas prices and electric bills will skyrocket, and the economy will suffer badly when people are forced to cut back.

Houston, we have a problem.

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Old 04-12-2001, 10:07 PM   #18
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Ah, yes, you gotta love the electoral process which got Bush into office! Unfortunately, he came on at a fragile time, when we're on the brink of an alleged economic downturn. I still don't think we're as bad off as a decade ago, but if the cards aren't played right, we're in deep doo-doo. We're all gonna suffer at the gas pumps due to his being in bed with the oil industry.

Interesting that we buy more oil from Canada and Mexico than OPEC, I didn't know that. I believe the US does get sort of a group discount, or rather a bulk discount. Since we are more reliant on cars, we use way more gas than Europe, which has such good public transportation. It's a complicated pricing scheme, but I'm sure if gas was that expensive here, we'd be looking more into improving our public transportation infrastructure.

I had heard (maybe on this board?) that there was a study done which said that gas would have to go up to $3/gallon before people would start ditching their SUVs. Look at how bad it got in the 70s before the auto industry started building econoboxes.

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Old 04-13-2001, 09:22 PM   #19
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Well, it comes down to supply and demand. When companies cannot build new transmission lines and new power plants, and demand keeps growing - it is no surprise that electric prices go through the roof like they have in California.

Ditto for other facets of the energy business - gas, coal, oil, you name it - if constraints are placed on supply - even if they are well-intended constraints, and demands continues to grow - energy prices will continue to rise - a small change in the supply vs. demand balance can cause serious price increases.

And how does the US compete in the world economy when other countries are heavily invested in nuclear power which is a relatively cheap source compared to oil/gas/coal and others, when nuclear generation stations are a political pariah in the US?

We have a push to using electric cars in some urban areas - yet no thought has gone to how to generate the electricity to keep 'em charged.

Someday, I think nuclear will make a comeback - nuclear has a big advantage that is getting bigger and bigger - especially when we have stuff like the Kyoto treaty regulating CO2 emissions. The advantage is that nuclear's pollution is contained in one place - burning fuels push pollutants into the air where control and mitigation is virtually impossible. I think it is time to get some research going in the handling/processing of spent nuclear fuel.

In my family, we have no SUVs. We have Saturns - easy on the gas, cheap to run in terms of $$ and time. Yeah, we could really use an SUV, or a 4WD pickup at times - especially in the winter with heavy snow and early spring when the township roads turn to gumbo - but at what cost? Yeah, we could afford big fancy wheels, but why get 'em when you don't need them.

It gets down to the issue of needs vs. wants - and being able to tell the difference.

ALas, I have rambled all over - geez I shouldn't post when I have a headache.

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