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Old 05-22-2018, 10:08 AM   #21
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

I have a good selection of brand new valves that leaked right out of the box. I test every one and send lots right back. Use a Klean Screen under the EGR and you do not end up cutting the seat on a good one.

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Old 05-22-2018, 11:22 AM   #22
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1996 SL1
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
I have a good selection of brand new valves that leaked right out of the box. I test every one and send lots right back. Use a Klean Screen under the EGR and you do not end up cutting the seat on a good one.

I have the "help" aisle screened gasket, is the Tomco a better version? Also what do you mean by cutting the seat?

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Old 05-22-2018, 12:49 PM   #23
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Any of those screen gaskets do the job. A small particle of carbon on the seat hold the valve open and allows a jet of hot exhaust gas through the valve on every cylinder exhaust stroke. This hot gas rapidly cuts a nice groove into the seat and now you have a permanent slowly increasing leak. As the majority of new valves leak out of the box the time between purchase and place in trash is unacceptably short. If you get a good EGR valve they last for years.

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Old 05-22-2018, 01:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Ah that makes sense, I had not thought of that before. I actually pulled one from salvage a while ago when I last suspected the EGR.

I think cleaning the current one solved the issue the last time.
The current one I've been using also has a fairly soft spring it as far as I can tell. So it may be due to replace.

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Old 05-22-2018, 04:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Vacuum and gravity hold it closed, the spring is only so the EGR will operate upside down.

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Old 05-22-2018, 11:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Well, everything seemed better, but I'm still loosing coolant, either out the cap or magic, the cylinder is misfiring and aditionally the exhaust smells like sickly sweet(i noticed it before but didn't have any reference to know it's significance). And newly, it dies on start up the first time. It's a heck of allot more drivable, but the initial symptoms have not gone anywhere.

So, about that head gasket?..
I read that if the coolant return line is constantly bubbling then that's a sign too, and it appears to be venting air out of it constantly.
No oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil.

Allot of symptoms over two weeks and i had listed what was going on to multiple people and then I forgot about things to mention here. Like, the week prior to misfiring, I started overboiling/out of the cap and loosing coolant mysteriously, then the following Sunday it started missing. Go me and making more work for myself.

Honestly this is discouraging, not so much the work, but the not being able to figure out exactly what's going on to actually fix it. In addition to initial problems changing into other problems and making everything confusing.

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'96 SL1 Originally the family car, passed on to me as my first. "Hellcat" 240,000+ miles and purring smooth.
My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.

Last edited by Nekomimi; 05-22-2018 at 11:20 PM..

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Old 05-22-2018, 11:42 PM   #27
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

You have a compression leak into the water jacket and probably between 2 cylinders. That is commonly called a blown head gasket. The leak is probably between 3 and 4 based on your numbers. These get worse with time. You are burning the antifreeze, that is what you smell. If you get the concentration up to 50% you can loosen the cap and probably cut down on the loss rate and stop the hidden overheating. The fix is to pull the head.

The actual problem/error is all the critical info did not make it into a single post or an updated single post until just now.

It is possible you might buy time with a couple of BARS Leaks tablets but not likely from the symptoms.

Once the head is off you can asses the condition of teh block deck and head. Timing cover has to come off as well.

Last edited by OldNuc; 05-22-2018 at 11:50 PM..

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Old 05-22-2018, 11:53 PM   #28
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1997 SL2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Richpin actualy has a video on replacing the head gasket on the SOHC.
https://youtu.be/yH0gHdnM1cE

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Old 05-23-2018, 07:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Yeah, sorry I made it confusing, I've been scrambled lately :/

Thank you Zeebins ^^

So, at RockAuto, should I go with OEM Gasket, or high-end after market set? Or both but use the OEM head gasket.
Looking at the Mahle set, the enginetech looks identical but the info tab mentions it's for oversized cylinders. ( Actually, I think I answered my own question, OEM head gasket and After-market kit sounds good)

...
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My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.

Last edited by Nekomimi; 05-23-2018 at 07:37 AM..

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Old 05-23-2018, 08:14 AM   #30
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

FelPro for head gasket or Victor, skip the others. You also need the gaskets for anything else you take apart. Do buy the timing cover gasket set as that is the oil pump suction/discharge and front seal set. Exhaust manifold gasket and lower flange gasket.

SOHC (1999)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1159762...M-sgqDt-K26-gE

Head replacement and chain remove-replace
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=168496

Work wise the only difference between the sohc and dohc is the number of cams.

Do not deviate from this procedure or you will have a nasty oil leak as a minimum.

Clean the head bolt holes with a fiber brush and blow out with compressed air. Clean the head and block mating surfaces with acetone. Set your new gasket on the block in the correct position so the oil port is not blocked. Carefully set the head on the gasket and do not scratch the head or block. If the bolts seem to be oily when you pull them out of the box wipe them off with a clean dry rag and don't leave any lint on them. Now screw all the NEW head bolts in by hand and torque them in order and stages to the 48ft-lb final value.

SOHC head torquing procedure

Initial dry bolt torque in sequence to 48ft-lb following the torquing pattern in stages to 20ft-lb, 30ft-lb, and final 48ft-lb. This establishes the proper clamp load on the gasket.

This is followed by removal in about 1/4 turn in sequence until loose.

Bolts washers, threads and bolt heads are oiled with clean engine oil and reinstalled finger tight.

Torqued in sequence to 22 ft-lb then 33ft-lb and then additional 90 degree turn.

The 90 degrees is important so do not guess at the 90 degrees. You can eyeball it and use a 1/2 drive breaker bar and make the 90 degree turn in a single smooth motion.

If this is not followed the new gasket will end up leaking.

Torquing sequence
intake side
8-4-1-5-9
7-3-2-6-10
exhaust side

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Old 05-23-2018, 08:24 AM   #31
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1996 SL1
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Thank you, by Victor, you mean Victor Reinz correct?

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My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.

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Old 05-23-2018, 11:26 AM   #32
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Yes. My preference is FelPro but that is a trip to the local FLAPS for the local inflated price. The V-R will be fine.

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Old 05-23-2018, 06:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

I was mainly interested in the Victor because the cylinder holes had more visible shiny metal, my Amazon cart has the Felpro gaskets in it. Since I replaced my timing cover seals the last time I had to pull everything apart in 2016, could I just order the GM engine sealant 88864346 (The only GM one in the squeeze tube on Amazon) for the timing cover?

...
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My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.

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Old 05-23-2018, 07:18 PM   #34
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Plain old RTV Permatex Ultra will be fine in gray or black and if you want to do it right use this: Permatex 85420 Permashield Fuel Resistant Gasket Dressing & Sealant. Order from Amazon. This is an entirely different product. It is much easier to work with and has a very long working time. If you decide to use it then I will go into usage.

A felPro is the better option. I would replace those seals as failure, although extremely remote, is quite unpleasant.

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Old 05-23-2018, 08:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

Ohh, I'm definitely interested in a friendlier working time

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:50 PM   #36
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

This stuff is entirely different than RTV as it does not actually set up or cure. It is much more user friendly.

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Old 05-24-2018, 07:30 AM   #37
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Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

I decided to go with it, I really like the sound of it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20180524-072828.jpg (186.4 KB, 6 views)

...
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:46 AM   #38
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Misfire cylinder 3 then 4 diagnosis help

You do not use a big gooey bead, just a thin film as the timing cover is a metal to metal seal. The secret is to let the acetone solvent fully flash off and then it is not instantly sticky. A thin coat on both mating surfaces works well. Those small metal handle short bristle brushes wok great for getting this where you want it and not too thick. Acetone is the thinner and solvent.

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