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Old 04-13-2017, 07:46 PM   #61
OldNuc
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

If the cat is clogged you will set codes when you do what you described. Just pull the PCM B fuse and try to drive conservatively for a while as sometimes you can get the cat cleaned up by taking long drives on the highway at cruising conditions. The muffler could also be plugged.

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Old 04-13-2017, 09:30 PM   #62
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
If the cat is clogged you will set codes when you do what you described. Just pull the PCM B fuse and try to drive conservatively for a while as sometimes you can get the cat cleaned up by taking long drives on the highway at cruising conditions. The muffler could also be plugged.
Ok, I'll try that. I know that the muffler isn't clogged, I just had it off a day or two ago and it was good, I have an aftermarket muffler on it.. Lol.. and there isn't a resonator either. I'll try out some highway driving. I definitely don't want to have to replace the cat.

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Old 04-13-2017, 10:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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Ok, I'll try that. I know that the muffler isn't clogged, I just had it off a day or two ago and it was good, I have an aftermarket muffler on it.. Lol.. and there isn't a resonator either. I'll try out some highway driving. I definitely don't want to have to replace the cat.
It will clean out if the mixture is close to correct. Did you have that new flex welded into the pipe or is it clamped?

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Old 04-13-2017, 11:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
It will clean out if the mixture is close to correct. Did you have that new flex welded into the pipe or is it clamped?
My dad welded it for me, they aren't the best welds so I may put some quick steel around it just to be sure that they aren't leaking at all.

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Old 04-14-2017, 10:27 AM   #65
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

That area gets too hot for quick steel so pressurize a cold exhaust and look for leaks. Any leak at the head, lower flange or in the pipe between the lower flange and the cat will really upset the mixture.

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Old 04-15-2017, 06:27 AM   #66
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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I did the compression test today... each cylinder hit 150 psi basically... the car hadn't ran in about 2 hours and it didn't even get to 60 degrees today.

https://youtu.be/eXtj0ySPh_Q

That's a very recordings I combined into a video to show the gauge on each cylinder and show that I had it cranked long enough.

I had the battery connected to a charger.
had the PCM B fuse out to do test, obviously had someone else cranking with the pedal on the floor.

I might get around to doing the flex pipe this weekend just to make sure everything is gucci.

on a side note, I figured out the issues with the driver side window, the motor was rubbing on the inner housing and removing material weakening it and also the track is shifting slightly when trying to raise the window, but it only struggles when the window has been fully rolled down and immediately tried to be rolled up.

The sunroof I also fixed, the control board wasn't soldered very well (my own fault) , and the original armature was pulling itself up closer to the gear assembly and nicking some of the coils on it, causing it to short and get stuck.. the gear assembly - side shaft bearing ( a plastic Philip's head screw opposite to the motor) was also gone (my dad's fault, he drilled it out because we didn't know what it was and wanted to get it out..but it didn't want to.. lol..)

Anywho, finally got around to doing that test wanted to post the results of it.. hopefully get some responses that the results aren't like...psychotically out of spec or something.

Thanks in advanced.
150psi is WAY TOO LOW. 180psi is the service minimum.

Regarding your driver's side window: removing your door skin will allow you access to the assembly for the tracks and regulator. The tracks will need to be adjusted, for the wear on your regulator. The scissor-style regulators have a tendency to bend the pressed-in rivet at their center, over time.

You can make small adjustments to your tracks, like I did on my 1995 SC2, to allow for less restrictive movement. This will save wear on your window motor as well.

My family has sold PLENTY of window regulators, from many different cars over the years. I have seen a pattern, with the scissor-styles, many times. 92-98 Pontiac Grand Ams(2dr) were NOTORIOUS for this same issue.

...
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:17 PM   #67
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
150psi is WAY TOO LOW. 180psi is the service minimum.

Regarding your driver's side window: removing your door skin will allow you access to the assembly for the tracks and regulator. The tracks will need to be adjusted, for the wear on your regulator. The scissor-style regulators have a tendency to bend the pressed-in rivet at their center, over time.

You can make small adjustments to your tracks, like I did on my 1995 SC2, to allow for less restrictive movement. This will save wear on your window motor as well.

My family has sold PLENTY of window regulators, from many different cars over the years. I have seen a pattern, with the scissor-styles, many times. 92-98 Pontiac Grand Ams(2dr) were NOTORIOUS for this same issue.

Yea I had the door skin off when I was looking at it a couple a weeks ago..or whenever I mentioned it.. (can't remember). I did notice that the arm with the teeth on it that is moved by the motor had a hitch in it when the window got around a 1/4 way above the door line. that's nice to know what the problem most likely is now though.
I ended up frankenstiening the motor.. it is the original housing and a newer armature.. the original one had some deep gouges in it and in the gouges were some serious arc marks from where it got too weak and couldn't move the window up the track (?) I guess I don't know, it's an assumption and everyone knows how that goes.
If my helper is around tomorrow I'll redo the compression test before I take it out on a good little hwy drive. I haven't driven it on the hwy myself..ever, I've driven my parents' car multiple times on the hwy.. but not my own..
I forgot that I had some versachem muffler weld sitting around still :

http://www.itwconsumer.com/versachem...%26%20Sealer-8

I looked at the tech sheet before I even thought about getting the car up on jack stands so I could get under it.
I sprayed the welds on the flex down, both flanges and directly on the cat with soapy water yesterday.. saw some bubbles popping up around one of the welds and around both flanges.. the stud I replaced on the manifold-down-pipe flange stripped out.... so i changed THAT one out with the other one in the pack, fixed it a-ok. The other flange is probably leaking because we had to change one of the bolts because the old one rounded off -_- ..even though I just replaced that flange gasket a couple days ago.. oh well I'm a weakling and can't tighten stuff very well anyways so yea that happened. And also, the very end of the cat started making bubbles (?) like the weld seam on the end of it before it narrows down to the pipe which then goes to the flange..

...
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:26 PM   #68
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

CATs do burn out if there is excess gas in the exhaust. All of those bubbling leaks need to go away. Flange leaks are the largest problem.

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Old 04-16-2017, 05:25 PM   #69
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Well that's nice to know.. I don't have a lot of that muffler weld left so I'm not sure if I'll be able to fix it or not.
I took it on a hwy drive today it was a 38 mile trip with about 10 minutes of idle half way through the trip, and most of the time I was doing 70 ish. Half way through the trip the mil light came on, checked it with my scan tool, same P0171 code and it also said that the EGR monitoring was incomplete.. not sure why but ok. It didn't hesitate at all, except for the normal running lean hesitation.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:41 PM   #70
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

EGR will not complete with a P171 code active. Clear the code and try and get leaks fixed.

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Old 04-18-2017, 12:11 AM   #71
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
EGR will not complete with a P171 code active. Clear the code and try and get leaks fixed.
Oh ok, I wasn't aware of that. I've checked the codes before and they were all complete but I guess it just had a chance to complete before the code popped up.
I'll try to recheck all of the flanges and such tomorrow and try to patch whatever leaks accordingly.

...
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

I went back over it yesterday with some soap and used a shop vac to check for leaks, found one in the front quarter of the cat, took some of that muffler weld to it, hoping that actually kept. Drove the car yesterday, only about 10 miles, drove very conservatively, no light but it still didn't feel right.

...
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:36 PM   #73
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Drove it again today, same 10 ish mile trip, a little less conservative, light came on, didn't check it but I already know it's the same.
I'm not catching something, but I'll find it.

...
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:40 AM   #74
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Ok, something that crossed my mind yesterday (was working on a '97 sc1 yesterday so I didn't have time to post here)
Is it possible, that a small Gap between the oil pan and the block, which causes a leak, can cause a "vacuum" leak and cause this code which then triggers the PCM to dump more fuel in the chambers thus causing performance issues because it's actually running rich but doesn't see that because of the lean condition proceeding it?

Just a thought..

...
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:11 PM   #75
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Only if the crankcase pressure is negative. A tight engine and the fixed orifice PCV will mainytain the crankcase negitive at all times.

To check you have to measure air flow into the crankcase. The inlet is on the exhaust cam side of the DOHC cover and is that small hose connected to the intake. Do not block it off with a pressure gauge or something like that as you will cause all kinds of problems.

You can connect a larger diameter clear tube that contains a small bird feather hanging on a thread so you can see the direction of flow and estimate the flow velocity. The feather will either be pulled towards the engine or away from it. Towards indicates that you have a negative crankcase pressure.

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Old 04-27-2017, 12:02 AM   #76
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

https://youtu.be/VJQnpellK1M

I would take it that this shows that the crankcase is under negative pressure considering that the paper was being sucked up against the inlet.
I'll be working on getting that oil pan leak fixed sometime soon, by the end of next week I'll have oil ('cause it is low lol), a filter, and also trans. fluid and a filter for it, the filter on it is leaking around the lip, and so is the lower trans. line pass-through that goes into the radiator... I saw a little fluid around the threads on it when I was working on the exhaust.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I would assume that I could use this.. however I ask so that I don't waste money and mess something up, also.. this filter >

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

pretty sure it's the right one, but again I ask to make sure.

...
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:15 AM   #77
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

The fluid and filter will be fine. You do have negative pressure in the crankcase so it will be pulling excess air through any additional openings. For this to cause any lean codes is a stretch but not impossible. Oil leak must be stopped though as low oil level is not good at all.

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Old 04-27-2017, 11:42 AM   #78
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

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The fluid and filter will be fine. You do have negative pressure in the crankcase so it will be pulling excess air through any additional openings. For this to cause any lean codes is a stretch but not impossible.
Ok cool, I'm glad that I said something about it, else I probably would have never figured that out.
Also good about the fluid/filter, it'll get done within the next week or so (famous last words lol)

Quote:
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Oil leak must be stopped though as low oil level is not good at all.
And yes, I checked it a couple of days ago and it was covering about a 1/5 of the hatch mark... It was full of oil last time I changed it and the filter..which has been a number of miles ago, it's just a couple hundred under 142k.

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Old 05-02-2017, 11:39 AM   #79
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Well, a planned two day project became a three day project. BUT, I finally got the pan and accompanying pieces off, replaced the gasket material, put it all back on, and I'm driving it today. When I was driving this morning it wanted to hesitate just a little bit, however when I drove to where I'm at now it didn't hesitate at all. The first trip was 20miles, second was 15, and my next trip will be about 5. 40 mile round trip, everyday.

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Old 05-08-2017, 12:11 AM   #80
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Default Re: Another Lean Condition thread... I know, I know boring and annoying

Just make sure you keep a close eye on your oil level. With the mileage on the engine, it is due for ring failure and excessive oil consumption.

Keep it AT of slightly ABOVE the full mark, to prevent premature timing chain tensioner failure. Try not to let it get anywhere near the ADD line, as this will not only worsen your oil consumption, with DOHCs it tends to cause excessive wear on the valve seals. Once those go bad, you'll be adding oil DAILY, and you sire won't ever pass an emissions test, regardless of fully operational emissions controls and a new catalyst.

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