SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2019, 04:45 PM   #1
CadeK
New Member
CadeK is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2

2002
2002
Default Switching BCM

Hey all!,


I have a 2002 LW200 and a 2002 L200... The BCM on the l200 went out last year. I kept it around as a parts car. Recently my LW200 has begun to just fall apart, she has over 250k miles... And it seems everything is going wrong. I have come to the point that I think it might be better to swap the BCM from the Lw200 to the l200.... Is this something that I can do at home? Or do I need to have it programmed by a dealer??.... Also, can anyone direct me to a post or vid that I can use to find, remove, and replace the BCM?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to CadeK's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help CadeK reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
CadeK is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-12-2019, 09:20 AM   #2
rfisher
Member
rfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Switching BCM is it a trip to clip city

hi Saturn sages- this would be a very good thread if anyone here has experience with the bcm. surmise it is and was designed from the git go as a supa profit enhancer and home run maker for dealer shysters. blue book says my L100 from 01 has a value of $140 which would make a $2000 soaking from a dealer for bcm r and r and adjustments unlikely. luckily haven't neeed it yet. is there something mysterious about adjusting it or does it require a magical superscope to adjust it? I know I know , bad attitude. thanks tons bob f

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rfisher's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rfisher reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 07:29 PM   #3
pierrot
Master Member
pierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud of
 
pierrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 3,695
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Switching BCM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CadeK View Post
Hey all!,


I have a 2002 LW200 and a 2002 L200... The BCM on the l200 went out last year. I kept it around as a parts car. Recently my LW200 has begun to just fall apart, she has over 250k miles... And it seems everything is going wrong. I have come to the point that I think it might be better to swap the BCM from the Lw200 to the l200.... Is this something that I can do at home? Or do I need to have it programmed by a dealer??.... Also, can anyone direct me to a post or vid that I can use to find, remove, and replace the BCM?
Threads concerning the BCM abound in the L-Series Forums. Use the Google Search or the SaturnFans Advanced Forum Search and you'll find plenty of information regarding your concern. I'll give you some short answers:

1) You can replace the BCM yourself, it's not difficult. The BCM sits atop the glove box case. You need to remove the glove box door and the case to access the BCM. You also need to be careful while removing the connectors to it (on the back end - towards the firewall). If you can, remove the connectors prior to pulling the case out of it's location in the dash.
2) When swapping a BCM the donor unit needs to be "married" to its second cars' electrical systems including the PCM and the PassLock security feature. (Failure to correctly marry the donor part to the second car will result in a no-start situation.) Odometer readings from donor BCMs cannot be altered whatsoever by design. So your donor BCM simply continues counting miles from where it left off when removed from its original vehicle. For information on marrying a used BCM to your car do a search. It's been written up many times.
3) If you want to maintain your actual odometer reading for the car then you must have a dealer program that information into a NEW BCM. To the best of our knowledge here in SaturnFans, no other repair shop source is allowed to perform that programming feature.

...
320,000 miles - Holy canolli!
The blessings of liberty erode in my country.
Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pierrot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pierrot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 08:32 AM   #4
rfisher
Member
rfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Switching BCM-sticker shock?

hi pierrot- curious as hell. what do you think the dealer could clip you for the new bcm and then the unique repograming fee to get the correct odometer reading? as a betting man I would bet the shyster wants 1000 dinero. moe once told me the hottest spot in hell is reserved for new car dealer service managers. thanks tons bob f (I know I know my attitude is getting worse, no worries will take a pill)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rfisher's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rfisher reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 01:12 AM   #5
pierrot
Master Member
pierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud of
 
pierrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 3,695
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Switching BCM-sticker shock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
...what do you think the dealer could clip you for the new bcm and then the unique repograming fee to get the correct odometer reading? as a betting man I would bet the shyster wants 1000 dinero.
The current retail price I see for a BCM on a 2002 L-Series with a 2.2L engine (sedan or wagon use the same part no.) is $478.25. I would guess that labor time would be at around 1.5 hours and the rate at approximately $140.00/hour (labor rates vary widely by region [it goes higher for luxury brands] and all one has to do is ask what the hourly labor rate is). So my estimate is at $688.25 plus tax.

(I believe that a 2 hour labor charge would be too much. The time it takes to R&R the BCM is minimal and I doubt that there is more than a half an hour to transfer the odometer information from the old BCM to the new one and perform the relearn procedure.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
moe once told me the hottest spot in hell is reserved for new car dealer service managers. thanks tons bob f (I know I know my attitude is getting worse, no worries will take a pill)
rfisher, you are having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have!

...
320,000 miles - Holy canolli!
The blessings of liberty erode in my country.
Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pierrot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pierrot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 10:30 AM   #6
rfisher
Member
rfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Switching BCM

hi pierrot- found your comments on my decadent modus operandi funny as hell to say the least. so the clip for the bcm would be at least 600. if you have to put in a new one at the dealers b/c the car has to be running and then the dealer has to program it and only he can adjust the odometer reading you couldn't save by using a junkyard bcm and going to an indie for reprogramming and reodometerizing . seems close to a violation of the Sherman and clayton antitrust laws. what a home run for dealers since all cars domestic and foreign in the last 15 years have these things. will add the bcm to my growing list of the 10 top car scams in the recent past which already includes interference engines, muffler bearings, blinker fluid,and internal hydraulic slave cylinders for clutches. am I too hard on the car dealers? mucho apologia, my bad. thanks tons bob f

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rfisher's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rfisher reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 12:23 PM   #7
pierrot
Master Member
pierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud of
 
pierrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 3,695
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Switching BCM

Credit where credit is due. My humorous line is a quote of Rush Limbaugh. Oh yea...the first time I'd ever heard of blinker fluid was through SaturnFans! (That's a great one! )

I think that the complaint about reprogramming being limited to the dealerships is not well founded in this instance. With regard to an anti-trust issue I wouldn't know, however, I doubt that there is one. It must be remembered that the manufacturing of automobiles, their owning and driving is very highly regulated through the Federal and State levels. Among the regulations were laws against tampering with odometers. We're all aware that this occurred in the past with the rolling back of the old analog odometers by some unscrupulous sellers of used cars.

By placing the odometer memory in the BCM or some other computer controlled environment such tampering has become far more difficult. By design, used BCMs cannot have their odometer memory altered. Frankly, this is a wise limitation built into that unit. Limiting the odometer reprogramming to the dealership helps to prevent illegal alteration of that information. It also becomes much easier for law enforcement to find those who've installed a false odometer reading should such an event occur.

...
320,000 miles - Holy canolli!
The blessings of liberty erode in my country.
Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

Last edited by pierrot; 10-23-2019 at 12:37 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pierrot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pierrot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 12:42 PM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,118
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Switching BCM

No one said you can't find an indie to replace a faulty bcm with a used one. But beware of anyone claiming repair shops, indies and so called electronics specialists are able to adjust odometer mileage on used bcms. To date, in these forums including every Saturn model, no one has proven a used bcm can have its odometer mileage altered.

You've been around long enough to remember the tactics used in the Neanderthal age when speedometer cables were used. Back then, 'rolling back mileage' consisted of removing the speedometer and moving the gears around to set the odometer back. Others disconnected their speedo cable so the speed and odometer won't count up. Illegal tampering led to federal anti tampering laws against odometer tampering. Fast forward to car manufacturers policy when addressing electronics and odometer mileage; in GMs case, the bcm counts up mileage from a wheel or xmission sensor and holds it permanent memory. No adjustment despite several members claiming their chosen 'Harry's Bait & Tackle shop and electronics specialist' can alter used bcm mileage. Those claiming used bcm mileage were adjusted never came back with proof like a snapshot to compare their odometer display before and after replacing their bcm. Used bcms retain mileage, cannot be altered due to anti tampering laws and appear in displays. Many members here aren't concerned about mileage numbers since they're not getting rid of their car.

New bcms come blank and using their scantool, GM dealers program mileage copied from the display along with other things like adding the original remotes or new ones to restore full bcm function to a vehicle with bcm issues. Along the way when Saturn was discontinued, some members acquired used GM scantools or bought pirate equipment to replicate one and used it for minor things like adding replacement remotes. No one has posted their interest and any success in altering used bcm mileage. And some tasks requires paying a fee to use GMs online access to their TISWEB to use their scantool to perform tasks requiring GM online support - the same as dealers using their GM scantools for online support. GM isn't going to allow or support illegal odometer alteration so its understandable why GM replaces bcms with new blank ones and programs odometer mileage taken from readings prior to replacement. My understanding of odometer tampering keeps in mind anti tampering laws established decades ago. Put another way, if odometer mileage can be altered, there'd be many threads pointing out how, when, where and who can do it. You won't find any threads except the ones claiming a shop can do it. No one ever came back to provide proof of anyone successfully altering mileage in used bcms.

Most members here are more concerned about getting their car back on the road and if a used bcm with high mileage restores function to be able to drive and use all the bcm functions again, odometer mileage is at the bottom of the list. Other than performing at home the 30 minute relearn procedure without any tools, many buy a used bcm and restore almost full function for a drivable vehicle. Remotes have to be programmed into the replacement by.......a GM dealer or licensed locksmith. Anyone having GMs scantool (mobile repair shops?) or pirate scantool can do this too, as reported in previous threads.

Last edited by fdryer; 10-23-2019 at 12:51 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 07:10 AM   #9
rfisher
Member
rfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Switching BCM do we need a dirty trick squad?

hi pierrot and fdryer- I am amazed and do commend your sagery on the Saturn and bcm knowledge. I remember well the scams and dirty tricks practiced by dealers and indies in the 60s on odometer rollbacks and advising customers of a big muffler bearing malfunction during an oil change among many others. good point made about used bcms and not reprogramming the odometer mileage. btw and fyi there have been numerous thwarted attempts to create a monopoly in service and parts from dealers and indies so the consumer only has a single source and single sticker shock price. some of you may remember the failed attempt by car companies to make repair info and availability "proprietary" meaning the dealer was the only source. most of this was stopped but bad guys always try to sneak it back. and fd and pierrot you are right, replacement with a used bcm in an old Saturn does not necessarily require a odometer reprogram . just record the start mileage in your car repair book in your glove compartment and solve for X. hope you don't hate math. thanks tons bob f

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rfisher's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rfisher reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
rfisher
Member
rfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the roughrfisher is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Switching BCM - curious question from frugal person

hi sages- some of you have replaced the bcm yourself. if you replaced a dead bcm with a working one from a junkyard. what would a dealer or an indie soak you to reset it, relearn the security and adjust to the correct odometer mileage? bet it is a simple procedure but the clip would be $500. am I in the ball park or beyond left field. also what is the dead on balls tipoff that the bcm is shot. merely not starting could have 10 suspected causes. thanks tons bob f

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rfisher's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rfisher reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2019, 01:58 PM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,118
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Switching BCM

Personally, I don't know repair shop fees for (used) bcm replacement. Please be aware; all used bcms retain mileage and cannot be altered, period. No matter what anyone has claimed in the past in these forums, no one has ever come back and reported successfully altering mileage on used bcms. HINT - anti tampering laws against odometer tampering. The only way to have correct odometer mileage transferred is by using a new blank body control module. If a new bcm replaces a faulty one, GM is the only entity to perform odometer changes to update a blank bcm with correct mileage to match the current mileage of the vehicle. GM has their Tech II scantool/programmer to change bcms with zero mileage to whatever mileage was recorded from the vehicle prior to bcm replacement. At this time, any options and remote keyless entry are programmed so the vehicle is restored back to full function. Security is relearned too. Any other repair shop or individual with GMs scantool/programmer ($$$$) can perform the same functions but will have to pay for access to GMs online support.

Saturn owners have and successfully installed used bcms in their vehicles then paid GM to program their remotes. However, mileage from the used bcm remains. If the original mileage is lower, the new/used bcm updates the odometer to display what it has. If its higher, the odo displays it. It cannot be altered to a lower mileage. As to remotes, they're not programmed to the new/used bcm and GM has to program them to the bcm. Personally, its a toss of a coin whether or not GM will install used bcms. This brings up liability issues as to who is liable if an unknown part is installed by a dealer. If this used bcm fails to operate, labor charges doesn't change for time used. Part failure is not their responsibility as the owner supplied the part. Warranty for this work probably isn't given since the part isn't new. And if this used bcm does work and cannot have mileage altered to match current mileage of the vehicle, GM will not assume responsibility and would warn the owner before any work is performed. A business has liability issues so they're inclined to turn away this type of work. GM, and probably all new car dealers, will use new parts (that meet or exceed manufacturing standards) authorized as new parts to meet liability issues and usually provide a warranty against part defects so reliability is assured after the vehicle leaves the dealer. As you can understand, using questionable parts would not be considered since a dealer has zero control of where the part came from and if its new or used with possible issues after installation. Many may not realize the implications of who's liable for questionable parts so new car dealers will avoid used parts altogether and stick with new.

Independent repair shops can do anything they want and will consider the same issues of installing used parts and any warranty involved. Used part failure is very much at the top of their minds and who's liable if a part fails to perform to 100% or less. And does a repair shop have the same or similar equipment GM scantool/programmer? Simply replacing key electronic parts isn't plug n' play if the ecm/pcm or bcm are replaced.

With all the above, a diyer can replace ecm/pcm or bcm but must have all the info to make a clear decision about what can work and what won't. Diy replacement of a bcm requires a 30 minute relearn process, marrying the bcm to the ecm so security (Passlock) will function otherwise the vehicle will never run from the mismatch of ignoring the marrying procedure. Once the two components are 'married', Passlock is functional but remotes won't work since they're programmed to the bcm. The new/used bcm must be programmed by GM or anyone with GMs scantool/programmer or third party device simulating GMs scantool.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
switching oil ? Diamond193 S-Series General 25 10-23-2017 11:16 AM
Switching wheels crimsonandblue L-Series Tech 0 10-27-2013 07:20 PM
Switching Electronics n_c_mail S-Series Tech 1 03-22-2007 10:56 AM
Switching from Ion to L300 crestonepeak L-Series General 12 02-03-2007 02:36 PM
Switching Sattyman S-Series Tech 1 11-25-2002 10:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:11 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.