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Old 07-25-2005, 07:59 PM   #41
DerDrache
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

How long till Microsoft sics their lawyers on GM for that one...

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Old 07-25-2005, 08:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Can't tell too much with the vehicle covering, but looks OK... typical SUV and/or van styling.

One thing I *do* seem to like is its extended rear area... I have been looking for a vehicle that I can sleep in if needed... something like a van, but tough enough to go off road. Unfortunately, these photos show that its clearance is pretty low there... so it might be another SUV in 'shirt and tie'

GB

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Old 07-25-2005, 11:17 PM   #43
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante
I think it's good to see Saturn getting a full lineup of models that can compete on its own against other GM brands as well as all the other competitors. Saturn was a one-horse buggy for over ten years. They finally broke out of that, and now they're getting exciting new models and I think it's great. Hopefully this new crossover/mid-size will be consistent with the Saturn values we all have come to be so fond of - safety, economy, reliability, yet still have an exciting, attractive interior and exterior.
No! That's the freakin' problem, for Chrissakes. Every brand has everything! GM brands are too generalized, they need to be specialized or they'll continue competing with each other.

Matt

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Old 07-26-2005, 03:41 AM   #44
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke-Em
No! That's the freakin' problem, for Chrissakes. Every brand has everything! GM brands are too generalized, they need to be specialized or they'll continue competing with each other.

Matt

Sadly I would say that this is too true. GM competes with itself at times more than the compitition. VUE sales went down when the Equinox came out, the Cobalt took sales from the ION.....

I agree that each division should not have the same type of lineup. As it will hurt sales of the different models that are looked to be less than the rest of the simular models GM produces. Though try to get GM to think that maybe each division does not need a vehical from each platform.

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Old 07-26-2005, 06:02 AM   #45
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Looks like a GAS HOG. I'll stick with my 2002 SL1.

:-)

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Old 07-26-2005, 06:43 AM   #46
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Hey I'll throw this in there for fodder....


Secretly GM executives and Dodge executives are planning one of the biggest things in auto history....with GM floundering as bad a salmon out of water, Dodge executives and GM executives come to an agreement that Dodge/Chrysler buys out GM and what we see in these spy shots is the first ever new full size Dodge Ram SUV with an ECOTEC V-8, which is the first ever joint production between Dodge and GM/Saturn.....

Hey...It COULD Happen....given everything that is happening auto wise right now....

but not likely

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Old 07-26-2005, 07:40 AM   #47
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Dodge/chrylser? I thought those were separate now. I thought Mercedes bought chrysler a while back... maybe I'm just confused. But that's why Chrylsers nowadays look so nice and upscale, because Dodge stopped making them and Mercedes started. Right?

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Old 07-26-2005, 08:05 AM   #48
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by sps SOHC
Dodge/chrylser? I thought those were separate now. I thought Mercedes bought chrysler a while back... maybe I'm just confused. But that's why Chrylsers nowadays look so nice and upscale, because Dodge stopped making them and Mercedes started. Right?
Dodge, Mitsu, Jeep, Chrysler, MB, all under the same entity of Daimler Chrysler. How would you explain the use of Chrysler's Hemi, if Dodge and Jeep weren't part of DCX? And the use of the old MB platform for the Magnum and Charger?

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Old 07-26-2005, 08:18 AM   #49
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002SaturnMan
Looks like a GAS HOG. I'll stick with my 2002 SL1.

:-)
What WOULDN'T be a gas hog compared to an SL1?


Luckily GM is reducing the cars that Pontiac, Buick, and GMC have together since they are grouping them together. IIRC the Lambda's will consist of Buick, Saturn, and GMC versions. I would think that the GMC crossover would make the GMC Envoy XL redundant so Chevy will be the only one with an XL (Trailblazer EXT). The Bonneville is on its way out, and rumors have the Grand Prix on it's way out too. Buick and Pontiac won't have any trucks.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerDrache
How long till Microsoft sics their lawyers on GM for that one...
They would have to prove that there is consumer confusion between Microsoft Outlook and the Saturn Outlook. I don't think the best lawyer in the world could convince a judge that people will be going to a Saturn dealer looking for email software.

...
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:18 PM   #51
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
They would have to prove that there is consumer confusion between Microsoft Outlook and the Saturn Outlook. I don't think the best lawyer in the world could convince a judge that people will be going to a Saturn dealer looking for email software.
There was a lawsuit against GM in the 80's when the Chevy Beretta came out. The Italian gun manufacturer tried sueing GM for using that name.

IIRC, the Italian company lost.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:26 PM   #52
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkle bik
There was a lawsuit against GM in the 80's when the Chevy Beretta came out. The Italian gun manufacturer tried sueing GM for using that name.

IIRC, the Italian company lost.
Yes and no....Beretta S.p.A received a donation of $500,000 from GM to a cancer foundation of Beretta S.p.A.'s choice and GM exchanged a Beretta GTU coupe for a Beretta rifle and shotgun. They (GM) did however retain the right to use the name on it's cars. Kind of a wash, really.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
Yes and no....Beretta S.p.A received a donation of $500,000 from GM to a cancer foundation of Beretta S.p.A.'s choice and GM exchanged a Beretta GTU coupe for a Beretta rifle and shotgun. They (GM) did however retain the right to use the name on it's cars. Kind of a wash, really.
A GTU coupe in exchange for a rifle & shotgun?
Them Italians really got screwed!

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

I just hope they don't overprice it like they did the RELAY. I remember when I got a 'friendly' invite to test drive the thing. My wife and I got there, walked over to the car, got impressed, looked it over, got impressed, got in, got impressed, test drove it, got a impressed, got out to discuss price, and just about vomited. As shown it was over $31k.

I thought Vues were a bit overpriced too. 'Cmon GM: get with the plan!

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Old 07-26-2005, 01:51 PM   #55
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus1066
Sadly I would say that this is too true. GM competes with itself at times more than the compitition. VUE sales went down when the Equinox came out, the Cobalt took sales from the ION.....

I agree that each division should not have the same type of lineup. As it will hurt sales of the different models that are looked to be less than the rest of the simular models GM produces. Though try to get GM to think that maybe each division does not need a vehical from each platform.

While I agree that Cobalt sales have some impact on ION sales, and Equinox/Torrent sales have some impact on Vue sales, I don't think that every person who drives a Cobalt or Eek/Tor WAS going to be a Saturn Ion/Vue driver. GM invests a lot of money into developing platforms that can be shared across brands, with differences that suit that brand's identity best. So long as it is not a true badge-engineering/obvious carbon copy (i.e. Relay/Uplander/Montana SV6), and there are appreciable differences between the Saturn/Chevy/Pontiac/etc. versions, then I don't see a problem with sharing platforms. From the point of view of Saturn, having more models to sell is A Good Thing. From the GM perspective, having more models with more common components is also A Good Thing. Having brands compete head-to-head (see minivan fiasco mentioned above) is A Bad Thing (IMO).

The Kappa, Lambda, Theta platform vehicles are all proving to be VERY different in their incarnations under these three brands. I think it's cool that they are offering different models with somewhat different "personalities" to better suit potential customers. For whatever irrational reason, some people just will never even consider a Saturn, or a Chevy, or a Pontiac, but may be very loyal to one of those brands, or at least open to the idea. If GM can share 80% of the work in creating these vehicles and get an extra model or two from the last 20% of the effort, that's a pretty good buy in my book.




On a different thought... I wonder if this vehicle will have the hybrid technology for large vehicles that we've read about (which GM is co-developing with another automaker... Toyota was it?). It would be good for GM to have a mid-sized SUV that handles like a car and gets 20+ MPG in the city.

...
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Old 07-26-2005, 02:20 PM   #56
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

HMM........We bought our Saturn Vue because of, excellent mpg, plastic panels, looks, and room.

I see that two or maybe three of those definitley won't be present in the new one, so I won't be present at the dealership!!

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Old 07-26-2005, 02:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
They would have to prove that there is consumer confusion between Microsoft Outlook and the Saturn Outlook. I don't think the best lawyer in the world could convince a judge that people will be going to a Saturn dealer looking for email software.
Time will tell. If the Saturn Outlook is prone to crashing or software failures, Redmond has a case.
To be a slightly more serious, Saturn should not bundle bluetooth so people can check their e-mail. A car that's also a mail client... sounds like Outlook to me.

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Old 07-26-2005, 02:58 PM   #58
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehm70
HMM........We bought our Saturn Vue because of, excellent mpg, plastic panels, looks, and room.

I see that two or maybe three of those definitley won't be present in the new one, so I won't be present at the dealership!!
Well, it will have lots of room and, based on the Aura and Sky, good looks. Fuel economy will not be Ion or SL high (but I don't think you can cram 7 people or a whole bunch of stuff in one of those), but will probably be respectable for the size of vehicle. If you leave Saturn, I guess you'll have to go, ahh, hmmm, not sure what other dealerships will offer the polymer panels...

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Old 07-26-2005, 04:38 PM   #59
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdp326
What WOULDN'T be a gas hog compared to an SL1?


Luckily GM is reducing the cars that Pontiac, Buick, and GMC have together since they are grouping them together. IIRC the Lambda's will consist of Buick, Saturn, and GMC versions. I would think that the GMC crossover would make the GMC Envoy XL redundant so Chevy will be the only one with an XL (Trailblazer EXT). The Bonneville is on its way out, and rumors have the Grand Prix on it's way out too. Buick and Pontiac won't have any trucks.
Yes, there are going to be GMC, Buick, and Saturn versions of the Lambda crossovers.

The GMC crossover will not take the place for the Envoy XL because the new GMT-360's (Trailblazer, Envoy) will be larger than the current ones and have three rows of seats. The XL and EXT models will both be dropped.

The Bonnevile is long gone. The Grand Prix is not going anywhere, but it could be replaced by a RWD sedan that would be larger than the Grand Prix. It would be named G8.

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Old 07-26-2005, 04:42 PM   #60
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Default Re: TCC Spy Shots of Saturn Lambda Crossover

NSAP--I've heard that last bit too. It BETTER be named G8 or they'll look stupid with one model named "G6."
While you're here...is the Lacrosse/Buick W-body sticking around for a while? Wouldn't want the Lacrosse and G8 to overlap.

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