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Old 05-19-2006, 12:32 PM   #1
chrimsonshane
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Question 2007 Vue Hybrid

Anyone know if the new '07 Vue Hybrid's are worth the money? Thinking of trading in my '06.

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Old 05-19-2006, 12:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Compared to other SUVs and other VUE models, it's quite possible that the hybrid option will pay for itself if you keep it long enough.

As for your particular situation, it's difficult to say if it's worth it. Generally, it's not worth it to replace your vehicle for the sole reason of saving money on gas unless you get something really cheap in another class (i.e. compact car). The money you'll spend to trade will not be recouped in gas savings.

If someone was looking to buy a new VUE anyway, the hybrid is a good idea.

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Old 05-19-2006, 03:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

If you drive a lot of stop and go city traffic, then almost definately. If you do mostly highway driving, then no, it is actually a slight hinderence then only because of added weight. The Hybrid option on the VUE is very cheap compared to any other out there, and it comes with a bunch of added niceties along with it anyhow. The only thing to be weary of is first year bugs as with any new vehicle. I'm quite sure my mom's next vehicle will be the Hybrid VUE, or something similar, but that won't be for quite a while. I still think Hybrids are gimmicks, but the version in the VUE isn't claiming to save the world, just shut down when the engine is idleing.

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Old 05-19-2006, 04:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
If you drive a lot of stop and go city traffic, then almost definately. If you do mostly highway driving, then no, it is actually a slight hinderence then only because of added weight.
The hybrid VUE gets 4mpg better than the regular 4cyl on the highway. Probably due to the fact that it's a different (although more powerful) 4cyl engine.

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Old 05-19-2006, 05:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
The hybrid VUE gets 4mpg better than the regular 4cyl on the highway. Probably due to the fact that it's a different (although more powerful) 4cyl engine.
I didn't know that, but all things being equal (same engine) it would be slightly less. The fact the Hybrid has the heavy batteries, and added hardware just weighs it down a little. They should just put the 2.4L in the 4cyl then.

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Old 05-19-2006, 05:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
I didn't know that, but all things being equal (same engine) it would be slightly less. The fact the Hybrid has the heavy batteries, and added hardware just weighs it down a little. They should just put the 2.4L in the 4cyl then.
Not necessarily. It's all about the gearing in the 4sp. Since it can get a boost from the electric motor, the gears can be relatively long. I haven't seen the gear or final drive ratios to say for sure though.

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Old 05-19-2006, 07:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
Not necessarily. It's all about the gearing in the 4sp. Since it can get a boost from the electric motor, the gears can be relatively long. I haven't seen the gear or final drive ratios to say for sure though.
Good point, but the strength of the system is in the city, highway gas milage on hybrids is typically not much of an improvement over their conventional counterparts. displacement on demand systems are the opposite, but they are only offered on a small number of larger displacement engines.

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Old 05-22-2006, 12:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Has anyone considered what happens to a motor when it is constantly shut off and started again as the Vue hybrid does? Won't this increase the wear on the engine components? Also, what are the long term costs of battery replacement and electric motor repairs? Does this outweigh the fuel mileage savings over the lifetime of the vehicle assuming at least 100,000 miles will be placed on car eventually?

Just my 2 cents...

pdough

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Old 05-22-2006, 07:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

I don't see why they couldn't put a real battery in it for better savings on mileage. If you compare the numbers, the only "true" hybrids out there are the Prius, insight, and now civic. 4mpg better I can get by doing minor mods to my existing engine. they need to wuit calling them hybrids. Like the Exploder that gets almost no improvement in mpg, buy it's got a duracell strapped under it so it's a hybrid. Lexus had a new car that boasts 80% fewer emmisions, and it get 18mpg. For a car! Hybrid technology has become a sales gimmic. and until they make it so it can run entirely on the battery part of the time, instead of just reduced engine power helped out with a battery, It's not really a hybrid. It's just hype.

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Old 05-22-2006, 07:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Joe Handyman
4mpg better I can get by doing minor mods to my existing engine.

Of course YOU can. Hell, YOU can get a L series into the 12's with "minor mods".

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Old 05-22-2006, 09:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

An interesting (but untried in the markeplace) hybrid SUV would be a combination diesel/hybrid. Then you could run biodiesel (substantially lower emissions) and have the mileage enhancing electric motor too. You could also get by with a much smaller displacement engine with a diesel in a "street SUV", but have the option of a larger diesel for people who wanted to actually tow stuff.

20 years from now, most cars will likely be electric or mostly electric. The manufacturing costs would be cheaper, it would reduce the need for hazardous gas stations on every corner and would allow for much more commonality in parts (like the computer industry) further reducing costs. Of course, as long as there's a buck to be made by siphoning black gold out of the ground, they'll lobby the hell out of the worlds gummints to prevent that scenario. But it will eventually happen as the cost of fuel inevitibly ratchets up.

And that's coming from a died in the wool "conservative."

Cheers,

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Old 05-22-2006, 09:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatabbot
Of course YOU can. Hell, YOU can get a L series into the 12's with "minor mods".

Considering that's only 4 seconds off the stock quarter mile time, it's not hard to do. I can take 2 seconds off the time with my vue just by remove some needless weight and adding the CAI. I don't doubt that with a few more minor mods that I can get it down to 14ish. You act like it's not possible, how long have you been racing cars?

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Old 05-22-2006, 08:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
If you drive a lot of stop and go city traffic, then almost definately. If you do mostly highway driving, then no, it is actually a slight hinderence then only because of added weight. The Hybrid option on the VUE is very cheap compared to any other out there, and it comes with a bunch of added niceties along with it anyhow. The only thing to be weary of is first year bugs as with any new vehicle. I'm quite sure my mom's next vehicle will be the Hybrid VUE, or something similar, but that won't be for quite a while. I still think Hybrids are gimmicks, but the version in the VUE isn't claiming to save the world, just shut down when the engine is idleing.

Uzzy, I'm glade to see you really understand how this Hybrid works to compare it the Prius as some here are doing just isn't fair, it's not that type of Hybrid.

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Old 05-23-2006, 08:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdough
Has anyone considered what happens to a motor when it is constantly shut off and started again as the Vue hybrid does? Won't this increase the wear on the engine components? Also, what are the long term costs of battery replacement and electric motor repairs? Does this outweigh the fuel mileage savings over the lifetime of the vehicle assuming at least 100,000 miles will be placed on car eventually?

Just my 2 cents...

pdough
Given that the VUE's battery is from an American company (Cobasys in Orion, MI) and that it is a lower voltage (36V), it won't cost as much as a Prius battery (Matsu****a/Panasonic, ~$3500). The "electric motor" is the BAS generator which is like a big alternator, so the repairs (if necessary) are relatively simple. Assuming you drive 100,000 miles and get decent mileage (we'll split the 27/32 and say 30mpg, which is 5mpg better than the auto 4-cyl split of 25):
100,000mi @ 30mpg = 3,333gal @ $2.80 = $9,332
100,000mi @ 25mpg = 4,000gal @ $2.80 = $11,200

Get better mileage or if gas prices go up again and the return on investment increases.

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Old 05-23-2006, 10:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by red96
Uzzy, I'm glade to see you really understand how this Hybrid works to compare it the Prius as some here are doing just isn't fair, it's not that type of Hybrid.
I better know how it works, I test one of it's drivetrain components for a living. Production starts in June, I believe, for us here. All I can say about it is what a P.I.T.A.!

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Old 05-23-2006, 05:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
100,000mi @ 30mpg = 3,333gal @ $2.80 = $9,332
100,000mi @ 25mpg = 4,000gal @ $2.80 = $11,200

Get better mileage or if gas prices go up again and the return on investment increases.
Thanks for the numbers and info on approx. repair costs. Looks like the fuel savings equal about the same as the difference in price of the Hybrid vs. 4cyl? So you may not be saving a whole lot in the end (total ownership costs)... Again, this assumes todays fuel prices and no repairs... We know fuel will keep going up which makes a good case for the hybrid, but how reliable will the "hybrid components" be?

Another question that I have is how reliably does the hybrid battery continue to provide the same amount of power for the life of the car. If it loses some "umph" over a long period of time than the IC motor must comensate and this makes for worse fuel mileage. I guess time will tell if the hybrid case really makes sense in the end as far as saving money. The stronger hybrid case is for the environmental reasons which is probably a discussion for another site...

Good info...

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Old 05-23-2006, 06:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdough
Thanks for the numbers and info on approx. repair costs. Looks like the fuel savings equal about the same as the difference in price of the Hybrid vs. 4cyl? So you may not be saving a whole lot in the end (total ownership costs)... Again, this assumes todays fuel prices and no repairs... We know fuel will keep going up which makes a good case for the hybrid, but how reliable will the "hybrid components" be?

Another question that I have is how reliably does the hybrid battery continue to provide the same amount of power for the life of the car. If it loses some "umph" over a long period of time than the IC motor must comensate and this makes for worse fuel mileage. I guess time will tell if the hybrid case really makes sense in the end as far as saving money. The stronger hybrid case is for the environmental reasons which is probably a discussion for another site...

Good info...
1 - The batteries have been tested so far to up to 160000 miles and only losing 4% of their power. At that point, Toyota and others have dropped any further testing.

2 - It's all about the environment.

3 - If you are worried that things may break.......take a 2 or 3 year lease.

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Old 05-23-2006, 07:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by pisulino
1 - The batteries have been tested so far to up to 160000 miles and only losing 4% of their power. At that point, Toyota and others have dropped any further testing.

2 - It's all about the environment.

3 - If you are worried that things may break.......take a 2 or 3 year lease.
That's interesting. I'm willing to bet a lot of gasoline engines lose at least 4% of their output after 160000 miles. 8-)

The best design would be to have a smaller electric motor/alternator (depending on whether you're accelerating or decelerating) on each wheel. That way, there's redundancy if you lose a motor, and the weight is more evenly distributed. It would also allow for an "electronic limited slip" and traction control in the form of a central computer regulating the speed of each wheel independently instead of a mechanical limited slip diff and dedicated ABS/traction control controller.

Cheers,

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Old 05-24-2006, 07:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

I think keeping a hybrid for a long time is the Key here, But maintenance issues may offset the savings.

Our local news station just did a test on the E-85 Doge Van with 3.3L. E-85 is only 85% efficient as gasoline so 1.4 gallons does what 1 gallon of gasoline will do. And the mileage per gallon was about 15% lower than EPA sticker listing. I would give this a lot of though before purchasing any Hybrids.

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Old 05-24-2006, 07:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: 2007 Vue Hybrid

The ROI for buying a hybrid vs a "normal" gas version of the same vehicle is all over the map, depending on which vehicle you buy. Some of them can save you money in as little as a year and a half and others will never be cheaper due to initial higher cost and high maintenance costs. I read an article recently that attempted to caclulate the time for a return on investment for many hybrid vehicles, but I can't seem to locate it now. Here's another comparison I found after some googling...

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs.shtml

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