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Old 01-22-2019, 02:07 PM   #1
MikeNW
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1997 SL
Default ATF recommendation

1997 SL, 196,000 miles, 5-speed

I have changed the ATF several times in its 22 years. Currently it has Valvoline synthetic fluid.

What commonly available ATF would be thicker than Dexron III? I mean from an auto parts store or Walmart.

I was reading another thread about the 1-2 shift ring wearing. I would like to try a thicker ATF. In lieu of R&R the transmission (just fixed the input shaft last year about this time )

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Old 01-22-2019, 02:21 PM   #2
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Try a TES 295 fluid...

https://www.allisontransmission.com/...highway-fluids

Look on Summit Racing for a good price on Mobil 1 Delvac ATF...

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Old 01-22-2019, 08:10 PM   #3
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

TES 295 spec does not guarantee dex-3 characteristics compatibility.

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Old 01-22-2019, 10:04 PM   #4
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

BP Autran meets or exceeds Dexron IIIG specification....

https://www.coleoilandpropane.com/wp...an-295-Syn.pdf

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Old 01-22-2019, 11:47 PM   #5
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

You better check the 100C viscosity as most of these are now identical to Dexron-6 viscosities. Dexron-6 also is declared to be Dexron-3 compatible. You are looking for a 7.5 cSt value for these transmissions. Low viscosity is low oil pressure and clutch slip.

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Old 01-23-2019, 10:36 AM   #6
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You better check the 100C viscosity as most of these are now identical to Dexron-6 viscosities. Dexron-6 also is declared to be Dexron-3 compatible. You are looking for a 7.5 cSt value for these transmissions. Low viscosity is low oil pressure and clutch slip.
What viscosity fluid should I use in my new to me 2002 SL2 automatic with 60k miles that I can feel a slight slip if I mash the throttle just a little starting from a standstill? Is the slight slip normal? I'll take it for a drive today and shoot a video of the tach and speedo which may show the slip.

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Old 01-23-2019, 10:41 AM   #7
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNW View Post
1997 SL, 196,000 miles, 5-speed

I have changed the ATF several times in its 22 years. Currently it has Valvoline synthetic fluid.

What commonly available ATF would be thicker than Dexron III? I mean from an auto parts store or Walmart.

I was reading another thread about the 1-2 shift ring wearing. I would like to try a thicker ATF. In lieu of R&R the transmission (just fixed the input shaft last year about this time )
MikeNW,

I just noticed you have a 5 spd manual transmission. Does the manual use the same fluid as the automatic?

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Old 01-23-2019, 10:44 AM   #8
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Yes, except the viscosity is even more critical to proper shifting.

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Old 01-23-2019, 01:09 PM   #9
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2001 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Not sure how much "out of the box" you can go with the S-Series transmissions but I found this:
Mobil 3309/ Toyota T-IV: @40C= 33 cSt; @100C = 7.1 cSt
Aisin TIV: @40C= 34.88 cSt; @100C = 7.332 cSt

7.5cSt is higher than any of the "high viscosity" ATF's I'm finding. TOTACHI's probably comes closer but I can't find that actually sold by anyone, typical of an industrial focused product.

This is 7.3 as well: https://www.transdepot.net/Transtar-...uid_p_890.html

Guessing that means the "right" fluid is no longer made so it's pointless to try to find it...

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Old 01-23-2019, 02:06 PM   #10
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2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Amsoil ATF 7.5@ 100C
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

Mobil mutli vehicle ATF 7.42@ 100C
https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Pas...ti-Vehicle-ATF

Mobil 1 synthetic 7.4
https://www.mobil.com/english-us/pas...-synthetic-atf

Valvoline ATF for Mercon V, 7.4
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1

Transynd, 7.4
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/B4E75979E18A824580257B7C0066658A/$File/BPXE-98ATUN.pdf

I am running Transynd in my 98 SL2 (5 spd) because that is what was local to me. Gonna change over whatever is currently in my SC2 to Transynd but I think I have less than 2 qts left, so need to pick up something to fill out the rest before draining. Probably the Mobil 1 synthetic.

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Old 01-23-2019, 07:02 PM   #11
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Any ATF can be used in the power steering system to advantage.

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Old 01-24-2019, 08:40 AM   #12
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1995 SL1
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
TES 295 spec does not guarantee dex-3 characteristics compatibility.
Yet virtually all of them held a DEX III license, due to the fact that they were modeled around DEX III requirements. And all of them had to pass the testing to become TES 295 certified, which proves they hold up in long term use under extreme conditions. In the DEX IIIG to DEXIIIH changes, a number of companies didn't bother with the seal change modifications so they didn't get IIIH licenses.

As for the magic 7.5 viscosity, it's never been a requirement by anyone that made the transmissions, nor are most TES 295 fluids equal in viscosity to DEX VI.

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Old 01-24-2019, 09:39 AM   #13
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

The Saturn fluid had the higher ~7.5 viscosity. The present DEX-3 compatible formulations meet Dex-3H which is slightly lower viscosity.

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Old 01-25-2019, 08:33 AM   #14
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1995 SL1
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The Saturn fluid had the higher ~7.5 viscosity. The present DEX-3 compatible formulations meet Dex-3H which is slightly lower viscosity.
And yet the Saturn fluid was not the only approved fluid. The spec started when DEX II was still around, and included DEX III fluids. Cherry picking one certain characteristic of one certain fluid and making it sound as if there is an actual need to meet that specific characteristic is just misleading at best.

As the fluid specs changed over the years, they also often included changes in frictional properties, seal compatibility, shear, oxidation, etc.

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Old 01-25-2019, 12:18 PM   #15
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Any ATF can be used in the power steering system to advantage.
Are you saying any ATF can be used as powering steering fluid in any Saturns, or only Dex III?

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Old 01-25-2019, 12:21 PM   #16
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1998 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Any works but a full synthetic Universal ATF marked a Dexron/Mercon compatible is recommended.

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Old 01-28-2019, 02:03 PM   #17
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1995 SC2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
And yet the Saturn fluid was not the only approved fluid. The spec started when DEX II was still around, and included DEX III fluids. Cherry picking one certain characteristic of one certain fluid and making it sound as if there is an actual need to meet that specific characteristic is just misleading at best.

As the fluid specs changed over the years, they also often included changes in frictional properties, seal compatibility, shear, oxidation, etc.
Part of this is due to issues that GM had with original Dexron-III specifications causing blown transmissions. The long-term stability and sheer protection were too low, and this is what brought Dexron-III F and Dexron-III G specifications.

The only way to alleviate the older formulas was to change the fluid and filter every 12 months or 12,000 miles, instead of the 30-month/30,000-mile from our Saturn S-Series maintenance schedule.

My Dexron-III F did not actually become GM's standard specification, until 1993. This is also why older S-Series dispsticks may still show Dexron-II E approved on its stampings.

Dexron-III G was brought out, in 1998.

And they were originally Group 2 base stock, with additives.

What Nuc is saying to look for is correct, for the longevity of the transmission internals.

Dexron-III G is a synthetic base oil.

The reason the consumer needs to perform due diligence, on which oils are best suited for our cars are due to the fact that most companies do not make the minor revisions needed to meet GM Dexron-III G or Dexron-III H specifications, because they don't want to pay for the licensing.

This is also why you find "Dexron-III" stamped oils, with a slightly lower than 7.5 cSt @ 100°F

Dexron-III H specifications didn't hit the market, until 2003. However, if a fluid is Dexron-III G compatible, it has to be a synthetic base stock. Dexron-III G fluids were originally synthetic, from GM, to address complaints about TCC vibrations and shudder in the 4T65E overdrive transmissions.

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Old 01-30-2019, 08:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: ATF recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Part of this is due to issues that GM had with original Dexron-III specifications causing blown transmissions. The long-term stability and sheer protection were too low, and this is what brought Dexron-III F and Dexron-III G specifications.

The only way to alleviate the older formulas was to change the fluid and filter every 12 months or 12,000 miles, instead of the 30-month/30,000-mile from our Saturn S-Series maintenance schedule.

My Dexron-III F did not actually become GM's standard specification, until 1993. This is also why older S-Series dispsticks may still show Dexron-II E approved on its stampings.

Dexron-III G was brought out, in 1998.

And they were originally Group 2 base stock, with additives.

What Nuc is saying to look for is correct, for the longevity of the transmission internals.

Dexron-III G is a synthetic base oil.

The reason the consumer needs to perform due diligence, on which oils are best suited for our cars are due to the fact that most companies do not make the minor revisions needed to meet GM Dexron-III G or Dexron-III H specifications, because they don't want to pay for the licensing.

This is also why you find "Dexron-III" stamped oils, with a slightly lower than 7.5 cSt @ 100°F

Dexron-III H specifications didn't hit the market, until 2003. However, if a fluid is Dexron-III G compatible, it has to be a synthetic base stock. Dexron-III G fluids were originally synthetic, from GM, to address complaints about TCC vibrations and shudder in the 4T65E overdrive transmissions.
A wall of text that ignores facts.

GM DEX III spec never required a specific viscosity of 7.5

That is a fact, and why so many DEX III fluids were thinner. Including the ones AC Delco supplied to GM.

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:37 AM   #19
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2002 SL2
Default Re: ATF recommendation

Walmart had Valvoline™ DEX/MERC Automatic Transmission Fluid and Super Tech for the same price $14/ gal. I bought the Valvoline

I was able to find viscosity info for Valvoline https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1

but nothing for Super Tech

Is Super Tech products made specifically for Walmart?

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: ATF recommendation

Yes Super Tech is a Walmart brand. There is an SDS for Super Tech but you will have to ask the actual store manager to get it for you.

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