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Old 04-02-2014, 08:41 PM   #1
93twincam
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Default No start, think it's spark?

So I bought a 93 SC2 and made a thread about it yesterday, but I wanted to make a new thread about the no start problem.

So, I did a simple test to see if it was not getting spark or fuel. I could smell fuel out the tail pipe when turning it over, so I think it's getting fuel. I saw a video online that showed a simple test to confirm the ICM and coil was good. It said to pull the the 1st and 2nd plug wires off the coil (cylinders 1&4 I believe) and turn the motor over. If a spark arced between the 2 posts, the ICM and coil are supposed to be ok, and your problem may be the CPS sensor. Well, it arced when I did this test, but I'm not sure if I believe it could be the CPS causing a no start situation? I mean, even if the CPS was bad, wouldn't it still send spark to the cylinders? Even if its at the wrong time, I'd think it may stumble once in awhile. There was no stumble when I was turning it over, just turned over like you had all the plug wires pulled off.

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Old 04-02-2014, 10:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

did you check the plugs as well as the wires?

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Wait, I looked up that video again, and it said that if you see a spark between the 2 posts, then the CPS is ok. So I heard the video wrong. So I must have spark, unless all the plugs just failed all at once, which is very unlikely.

No I did not pull out a plug to check for spark

Must be a fuel issue...

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Remove all four spark plugs for several reasons; flooding from excessive fuel injection, no fuel, plug wear, and anything else out of the ordinary. Smelling fuel from the exhaust pipe doesn't help with troubleshooting compared to removing plugs. A soaked spark plug will drown/kill spark, making start ups hard to impossible.

If you find wet plugs, remove the original two-wire coolant sensor for examination. If you have the (original) round nosed plastic tipped sensor, replace it immediately with the flat nosed brass sensor that fixes many problems. And while you're checking things, if the heater puts out less heat, replace the old thermostat too. These two parts will restore instant starting, better heating and better fuel economy.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Check the plug wells for oil and if present, soak it up before removing the plugs.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Remove all four spark plugs for several reasons; flooding from excessive fuel injection, no fuel, plug wear, and anything else out of the ordinary. Smelling fuel from the exhaust pipe doesn't help with troubleshooting compared to removing plugs. A soaked spark plug will drown/kill spark, making start ups hard to impossible.

If you find wet plugs, remove the original two-wire coolant sensor for examination. If you have the (original) round nosed plastic tipped sensor, replace it immediately with the flat nosed brass sensor that fixes many problems. And while you're checking things, if the heater puts out less heat, replace the old thermostat too. These two parts will restore instant starting, better heating and better fuel economy.
Thanks for the info. I will do this when I get back to the car this weekend. Where is the 2 wire coolant sensor?

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el diablo viejo View Post
Check the plug wells for oil and if present, soak it up before removing the plugs.
Thanks for the tip, although I've experienced this before

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93twincam View Post
Thanks for the info. I will do this when I get back to the car this weekend. Where is the 2 wire coolant sensor?
Look by the drivers side of the engine where the egr valve is located. There are two coolant sensors on the cylinder head; a single wire one drives the temperature gauge and the two-wire one next to it. The two-wire one is the important one for the pcm to determine fuel mixtures.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Fdryer, are the two the same part number or not? I've wondered this for my '93 SW2, but didn't want to start a whole new thread.

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Old 04-03-2014, 12:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Can this newer brass style be bought at a parts store, or do I have to order it online?

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Old 04-03-2014, 12:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Most auto parts store will have this coolant sensor. Check online as large chain stores will tell you whether they have one in stock in a local store. AutoZone is a good example.

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Old 04-03-2014, 03:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallydriver View Post
Fdryer, are the two the same part number or not? I've wondered this for my '93 SW2, but didn't want to start a whole new thread.
No, they are two different sensors. The ECTS has two wires and two corresponding prongs on the sensor. The temp gauge sensor has one wire and one prong.

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Old 04-03-2014, 10:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93twincam View Post
Where is the 2 wire coolant sensor?
Your new best friend is going to be richpin

His Saturn repair videos are priceless. They start with the assumption that you know nothing about cars, so they start out showing you where the part is located. His ECTS video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucm7QGlsYs

How to with pictures, for dial up users (by Wolfman)
(notes: torque spec is 71 INCH pounds)

How to with pictures, for dial up users (by auxmike)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallydriver
Fdryer, are the two the same part number or not? I've wondered this for my '93 SW2, but didn't want to start a whole new thread.
They aren't different enough that car parts stores always get it right, and you can actually install and plug in the wrong one.

This thread has some discussion about the two sensors and what happens when you get the wrong part (pics & diagrams, too)
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=191883

Gauge sender is Standard Motor Products Part # TS356 or equivalent
ECTS is Standard Motor Products Part #TX73 or equivalent
(thanks to OldNuc for the info)

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Your new best friend is going to be richpin

His Saturn repair videos are priceless. They start with the assumption that you know nothing about cars, so they start out showing you where the part is located. His ECTS video

They aren't different enough that car parts stores always get it right, and you can actually install and plug in the wrong one.

Gauge sender is Standard Motor Products Part # TS356 or equivalent
ECTS is Standard Motor Products Part #TX73 or equivalent
(thanks to OldNuc for the info)
I've already watched quite a few of richpin's videos lol. Good info in them.

So the part I need is the #TX73?

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93twincam View Post
I've already watched quite a few of richpin's videos lol. Good info in them.

So the part I need is the #TX73?
Yes Standard Motor Products TX73 or equivalent.

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Old 04-03-2014, 12:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Thanks

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

So I'm just getting started working on the saturn today, and I was going to start by pulling plugs and checking for spark/fuel. I haven't pulled any yet, but when I went into the car and tried to start it via the flood mode, there was no engine light coming, on, just a service soon. Would the service soon light come on because of the coolant temp sensor?

I'm going to start pulling plugs while I wait for a response

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Also, where is the fuel rail valve stem located? I want to see if fuel is getting that far up stream. I just pulled one plug and it looked pretty dry, aside from some oil/gas/black stuff that wiped off the threads

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Check your PMs on MM

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Old 04-04-2014, 12:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: No start, think it's spark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidhadriel View Post
Check your PMs on MM
I just read this, and was thinking this was a response to my question(s) regarding the fuel rail valve/service engine soon warning light, and I was completely confused lol. I'm thinking, "What's a PM on MM in this car????" LOL
But I understand now haha

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