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Old 08-06-2007, 07:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Originally Posted by davidsky View Post
The trucks are worth more to GM than all the car divisions combined. Saturn is expendable.
Using that logic, all niche brands are expendable.

To be fair, I don't think I'd be the least bit surprised to see a day where the General consists only of Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC Truck divisions. That would certainly reduce if not fully eliminate their product overlap.


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Old 08-07-2007, 09:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Using that logic, all niche brands are expendable.
Under a large corporate umbrella, true. Niche brands seem to survive better on their own (Porsche, Ferrari)

Quote:
To be fair, I don't think I'd be the least bit surprised to see a day where the General consists only of Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC Truck divisions. That would certainly reduce if not fully eliminate their product overlap.
You've got the right idea.

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Old 08-07-2007, 09:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Originally Posted by davidsky View Post
Under a large corporate umbrella, true. Niche brands seem to survive better on their own (Porsche, Ferrari)
FWIW, Fiat has owned a controlling interest in Ferrari for decades.

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2 View Post
Looking at the future of Saturn as GM's domestic outlet for Opel vehicles, it's apparent that any remnants of the original Saturn concept are gone, a victim of globalization perhaps, and certainly a victim of GM's corporate culture. So, hopefully there will be another Saturn at some point. I don't just mean a car with dent resistant body panels (though that would be nice! ), but a small, innovative company (perhaps a subsidiary of a larger company, as Saturn was) that can produce unique vehicles that aren't just another flavor of what's already out there. Is there any hope of seeing something special like the old Saturn in the automotive industry again, excluding makers of ultra high priced exotics?
Smart will be the next Scion which was the next Saturn
www.smartusa.com

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Here's some interesting food for thought.

Opel only has 8.6% of the European market. These cars don't sell well in Europe. Why does GM feel these cars are going to suceed in America?
What makes you think they don't sell well? They do. And does that include Vauxhall? Opels aren't sold in the UK, but Vauxhalls are, and vice versa.

Both markets have mostly the same luxury brands/premium makes (though some aren't there or there yet such as Infiniti). Both have Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Hyundai, Kia, Mitsubishi, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep, to name most of them IIRC.
We have ones like Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Lincoln, Mercury, Scion.
They have (some depending on the market) Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Daihatsu, Skoda, and Seat, to name some. So, market share is spread out over more brands. The brands that we have are often grouped into a few companies (GM, Ford, etc.), whereas that's not necessarily the case in Europe (Skoda and Seat are with Audi, VW, etc., Peugeot and Citroen are together as PSA Peugeot Citroen, etc.).

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Smart will be the next Scion which was the next Saturn
www.smartusa.com
Is there a Smart sports car? I could've sworn I saw one when I was over in England!

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Is there a Smart sports car? I could've sworn I saw one when I was over in England!
Just the ForTwo and I think there is a ForFour, not sure about the second one. They have a convertable ForTwo.

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

Good thing I kept my stock for Sterling Motors cause its going to make a comeback (Japanesse drivetrains paired up with bodies from Europe,you just cant top the fine quality )

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

Actually, this must be what I saw!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster

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Old 08-07-2007, 11:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2 View Post
Actually, this must be what I saw!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster
Oh, I forgot about that thing. They never made it Canada. Not a bad looking little thing in fact, much more stylish than the ForTwo.

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Old 08-08-2007, 11:08 AM   #31
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Good thing I kept my stock for Sterling Motors cause its going to make a comeback (Japanesse drivetrains paired up with bodies from Europe,you just cant top the fine quality )
I believe Sterling makes big trucks. They are a division of Freightliner/DaimlerChrysler
There never was a Sterling car. Sterling was a name that Rover attached to their version of the Honda Legend that was sold in North America. Rover went bankrupt and shut its doors in 2004. The factory in England is still idle with 1/2 built cars still on the lines.

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Old 08-08-2007, 12:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Opel only has 8.6% of the European market. These cars don't sell well in Europe. Why does GM feel these cars are going to suceed in America?
Uh, in a market that is equal in size as the area between the Appalachian Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean and from Florida to Canada, 8.6% is pretty darned good. Opel is actually very high up on the list, and the Astra has been in the top 5 for sales since its debut in '04. It kicks VW's, Honda's, Toyota's, Renault's and Peugeot's arses every year. Also, you might want to add Vauxhall's figures in there since Vauxhall is Opel in the UK and Northern Ireland.

There are way, way more cars available in Europe than what we have here; we have something like 255 models available, Europe has almost 3 times that. You can't compare the European market to ours, they're two totally different beasts.

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Old 08-08-2007, 07:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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I believe Sterling makes big trucks. They are a division of Freightliner/DaimlerChrysler
There never was a Sterling car. Sterling was a name that Rover attached to their version of the Honda Legend that was sold in North America. Rover went bankrupt and shut its doors in 2004. The factory in England is still idle with 1/2 built cars still on the lines.
My comment was a joke (just like the Rover/Sterling cars they shipped over here).When they first sold them here in 1987,people thought they were the next greatest luxury car from Europe.After a couple of years,they disappeared off the face of the North American map (due to poor quality and electronics).

You are right about Sterling trucks.They appeared when Ford decided to get out of the semi-truck market and sold off the Aeromax blueprints to Freightliner (hence the oval where the emblem sits)

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Old 08-09-2007, 11:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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What makes you think they don't sell well? They do. And does that include Vauxhall? Opels aren't sold in the UK, but Vauxhalls are, and vice versa.
Both... I found the 2006 GM Europe sales figures... Still Europe is very diverse in sales. i.e. Chrysler imports Puegeots to rescue them.

The Saturn-Opel experiment will bring a taste of Europe to the US car market, but IMO it will not sell in enough numbers to maintain Saturn.

----------------------------------------------

Opel/Vauxhall continue withdrawal from less-profitable fleet markets
Accounting for 78 percent of GM's European sales, Opel and Vauxhall sold 1,563,196 vehicles in 2006 (2005: 1,601,802 vehicles), capturing a market share of 7.2 percent. Reflecting GM's strategy of reducing short-cycle fleet sales, overall market share slightly declined by 0.4 percent. On the other hand, the brand's share grew in 14 European markets. In Russia, the Ukraine and Romania, Opel doubled its sales from 2005.

The brand's most important volume model, the Astra sold 497,816 units in 2006, achieving a 2.3 percent share of the European market. Opel/Vauxhall was again the leading brand in the monocab segment with Meriva and Zafira in 2006. Zafira sales in that period increased by 23.9 percent, or 43,662 units, compared to the same period last year to sales of 226,297. The new Corsa recorded more than 200,000 orders since its start of production and Vivaro enjoyed record sales of 65,967 units in 2006 (+2,256 units or 3.5 percent).

Vauxhall held its second place in the U.K. sales charts with a 12.8 percent share and 349,596 registrations for the year. Especially strong retail performance made up for the marque's strategic withdrawal from the less-profitable fleet market: With 9.4 percent market share, Vauxhall reached its highest retail share since 1998. The success was pushed by a strong performance of Zafira which led its segment and by higher-than-expected orders for the new Corsa. Vectra also had a very strong year, especially in the retail sector where it outsold its closest rival by almost two-to-one.

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Old 08-11-2007, 12:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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It does include the imports. (Aveo)
I consider the HHR a car but GM does not.
How do they not?!? It's an ION, just like the Cobalt is an ION. Cobalts and HHRs sales should count toward SATURN, because Chevy stole them. For that matter, the Equinox (VUE) should count toward Saturn, as should the Envoy and Torrent (also VUE's). Pontiac should be able to claim AURA sales, because we pirated that setup, but we can steal right back thier G5 (ION) sales. ETC...and so on and so forth. I swear, it's corporate piracy. Why can't GM leave each brand the F alone to do thier own thing. NO...Saturn gets cool new car, Chevy wants one, so they use the platform...TWICE. And then they give it to Pontiac. See where I'm going? Each of the smaller divisions does so "badly" because every time they get something unique, Chevy has to pirate it and steal sales base. Chevy needs to build ONLY corvettes/trucks, and get the hell out of the car market if any of the other brands are to ever truly thrive. Damn Chevy, those backstabbing mama's boys. You know, it's pretty sad that a born and raised Chevy man like me despises his own brand because of their attitude toward thier sibling brands. Chevy sucks compared to the other brands. Chevy's models are bland, and plain. Blah, I'm tired of ranting....

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Old 08-11-2007, 01:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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How do they not?!? It's an ION, just like the Cobalt is an ION. Cobalts and HHRs sales should count toward SATURN, because Chevy stole them. For that matter, the Equinox (VUE) should count toward Saturn, as should the Envoy and Torrent (also VUE's). Pontiac should be able to claim AURA sales, because we pirated that setup, but we can steal right back thier G5 (ION) sales. ETC...and so on and so forth. I swear, it's corporate piracy. Why can't GM leave each brand the F alone to do thier own thing. NO...Saturn gets cool new car, Chevy wants one, so they use the platform...TWICE. And then they give it to Pontiac. See where I'm going? Each of the smaller divisions does so "badly" because every time they get something unique, Chevy has to pirate it and steal sales base. Chevy needs to build ONLY corvettes/trucks, and get the hell out of the car market if any of the other brands are to ever truly thrive. Damn Chevy, those backstabbing mama's boys. You know, it's pretty sad that a born and raised Chevy man like me despises his own brand because of their attitude toward thier sibling brands. Chevy sucks compared to the other brands. Chevy's models are bland, and plain. Blah, I'm tired of ranting....
Using that logic, Saturn stole the AURA, SKY and probably the Outlook too.

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Old 08-13-2007, 04:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Using that logic, Saturn stole the AURA, SKY and probably the Outlook too.
Not exactly. Aura, yes. Didn't the Outlook come out before it's siblings? And the sky, well, that was Saturn's concept years ago, granted a different platform, but it is OUR concept, well, and Vauxhall's concept (the Lightning) So the solstice came first, so what. Then the SKY came. We got RL before the Solstice GXP, AND, we gave the SKY back to Europe via the Opel GT. Either way, and even if my logic is somewhat flawed, I still think GM is being a bit** for screwing the younger brands to make Chevy happy. They have always done that, and they continue to do it. When I think economy and GM now, I no longer think Saturn, I think Chevy. For God's sake, Chevy has the Aveo. Tell me, if GM really wanted Saturn to be an economy brand at any point in the couple of years before the big revamp, you'd think they would've made the Aveo a Saturn, wouldn't you?

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Old 08-13-2007, 04:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Not exactly. Aura, yes. Didn't the Outlook come out before it's siblings? And the sky, well, that was Saturn's concept years ago, granted a different platform, but it is OUR concept, well, and Vauxhall's concept (the Lightning) So the solstice came first, so what. Then the SKY came. We got RL before the Solstice GXP, AND, we gave the SKY back to Europe via the Opel GT. Either way, and even if my logic is somewhat flawed, I still think GM is being a bit** for screwing the younger brands to make Chevy happy. They have always done that, and they continue to do it. When I think economy and GM now, I no longer think Saturn, I think Chevy. For God's sake, Chevy has the Aveo. Tell me, if GM really wanted Saturn to be an economy brand at any point in the couple of years before the big revamp, you'd think they would've made the Aveo a Saturn, wouldn't you?
Dude, Chevy is the economy brand...where have you been?

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Old 08-13-2007, 05:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Chevy has the Aveo.
http://www.globalautoindex.com/news.plt?no=1891&nl=y

New Aveo 5 update.

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Old 08-13-2007, 06:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: Where will the next Saturn come from? Is there room for small, innovative compan

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Dude, Chevy is the economy brand...where have you been?
I know Uzzy, read the last few lines closer.

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