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Old 01-07-2021, 05:40 PM   #1
Dbad
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Default 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

140K, fresh fluid but...

My tranny is becoming difficult to shift into 1st when the engine is running. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes not. If at a stoplight, I usually put it in 2nd and creep a bit and then it shifts in smoothly. Lately 2nd is showing the same tendency too.

What am I looking at here?
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

What fluid did you use?

Try double shifting, shift to neutral, let the clutch out, put it back in, then shift into the gear desired...
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

I doubt it is a fluid issue. Hydraulics or clutch.
...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwithcats View Post
What fluid did you use?
.
Penzoil--This mineral oil automatic transmission fluid is designed for historic General Motors DEXRONŽ III, Ford MERCONŽ, and Allison C-4/C-3 service
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ercon-atf.html
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I doubt it is a fluid issue. Hydraulics or clutch.
Hydraulics... fluid level or something else?
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

If we want to get technical I doubt the clutch being bad would cause this

I'd say hydraulics, and maybe the throwout bearing but really I can't think of much else it could be
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Possible shifter cable stretch?

Slave / Master cylinder not releasing?
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbad View Post
Hydraulics... fluid level or something else?
Like air in the system. Check out this:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=123791

My experience:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=11

Also this if you need it.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=233551

Also search for wire test, I've never done it but maybe somebody could chime in.

Quote:
If we want to get technical I doubt the clutch being bad would cause this

I'd say hydraulics, and maybe the throwout bearing but really I can't think of much else it could be
I agree on the throwout bearing. The fingers on the spring of the pressure plate can also go bad. Either the bearing or pressure plate would be a clutch replacement - even if the friction disk itself is fine.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

I had that same issue in a 01 SC1 a few years back.

Went to the junkyard and got a trans for $90. I then got a flywheel, LuK clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing on rockauto for around $120. The car drove (and still does) like brand new.
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Old 01-18-2021, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Ok, thanks for the replies. I think I'll try bleeding via the slave when the weather gets warmer. Is the slave rod secured to the cylinder or will it fall out if I'm not careful? I assume it has to be secured but I've made some very wrong assumptions in the past.

Also are there any rod alignment concerns when reassembling?

Thanks.

EDIT: The Wagner clutch kit is not available anywhere that I've looked. Any suggestions?
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

I did see that the Wagner kit is NLA. Bummer. But I had good luck bleeding, and you could always either go with the new chinese metal one or get a junkyard part.

The slave rod can be pulled out, but it doesn't really fall out. You do have to carefully get it in the depression on the fork. If you don't, the clutch won't feel right. As long as you don't force the clutch pedal down you should feel it and go back and do it right. It took us a couple of tries the first time. I'd call it a medium skill level task.
...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

I also got that wagner kit upon Waiex191's recommendation (thanks again!). (From rockauto, now NLA) I took a couple of days to hang it and tap out any potential air bubbles.

https://www.wagnerbrake.com
Looks like their locator is just for any wagner product (including brakes), which is sold at the local FLAPS. I wonder if the FLAPS can special order the part?
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Old 01-19-2021, 01:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

This summer I put in a replacement LUK master & slave clutch cylinder kit to deal with a squeaky clutch noise when it got warm. Installation was a bit of a pain -- I have ABS and it needs to be moved aside to get the master cylinder seated properly on the firewall. Everything else is pretty straightforward.

As a side benefit, I've noticed a BIG improvement in shifting, getting into 1st gear. etc. In hindsight, I wished I had made the swap a few years earlier.

I'd say that $80 for a new Luk clutch cylinder could make a difference with your symptoms.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by hholbein View Post
I'd say that $80 for a new Luk clutch cylinder could make a difference with your symptoms.
Where did you get the Luk kit? I found one on Summit that's similar but the starting year is 2000 and there's no damper. Did not find a listing for '99 back.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...2/applications

EDIT: Rock has the LUK CRS001 which looks more like what I want.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...0840&jsn=10840

Last edited by Dbad; 01-19-2021 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Ability to edit apparently expires here? So...

Regarding the Rock LUK kit linked in my previous post, could someone confirm that this is correct for my '98 SW2?

Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

LuK CRS001 Pre-Filled Clutch Hydraulic Assembly on Amazon. $80. Includes everything, perfect replacement fit. Fit my 1997 SW2.
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Old 01-20-2021, 06:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by hholbein View Post
LuK CRS001 Pre-Filled Clutch Hydraulic Assembly on Amazon. $80. Includes everything, perfect replacement fit. Fit my 1997 SW2.
Great, thanks.
EDIT: Ordered.

Last edited by Dbad; 01-20-2021 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

The new unit arrived today, metal/Chinese... oh well. It does appear to have a bleeder screw on the slave, so I guess that's an improvement assuming it functions properly to begin with.

I can see that the slave has 3 tabs on it to lock it into place and so requires a twisting motion to remove and replace (richpin video +1) but I'm not clear about the master cylinder, which appears to have only one protrusion. Do I need to install it with a turning motion also or can I just go straight in?
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Old 01-23-2021, 09:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

It turns CCW to remove. Reservoir towards the passenger side.

To install, it should be lined up a little CCW from vertical, push it in, turn it straight up and down.
...
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Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: 98 SW2 5spd shift issue

Thread w pics.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho....php?t=146379&

The How To Library has a ton of good things
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