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Old 01-22-2007, 12:22 AM   #1
Arnel
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Default Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...5F3705197C1D4F

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Old 01-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Take the money you spend on Premium gas and spend it on Premium Ice Cream because a pint of Ben and Jerrys has a lot more benefits than 93 Octane.

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Old 01-23-2007, 09:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

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Originally Posted by davidsky View Post
Take the money you spend on Premium gas and spend it on Premium Ice Cream because a pint of Ben and Jerrys has a lot more benefits than 93 Octane.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

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Originally Posted by davidsky View Post
Take the money you spend on Premium gas and spend it on Premium Ice Cream because a pint of Ben and Jerrys has a lot more benefits than 93 Octane.
Truer words were never spoken.

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Old 01-25-2007, 07:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Granted Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream is among the best ice cream in the world, and undoubtedly, if ingested, Ben and Jerry’s is much healthier for your body. However, I have found that with my '04 Vue Red Line, I was getting better mileage if I used premium over regular. I did the experiment and tracked it for 2 months. The first month, I used only regular gas, and the second month, only premium. On average, I achieved almost an extra 25 miles to a tank of gas with the premium octane. Interesting, I thought. I kept using the premium and the mileage kept up, but I never had the time to sit down to figure out if the extra 25 miles was enough of a gain to offset the extra cost. Nevertheless, I did get better mileage.

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Old 01-25-2007, 08:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Depending on the car, and how it is calibrated, it may get better gas millage out of higher octane gas.

On my car that has been 'tuned' (I hate that word) for 94 octane will get significantly worse gas millage if I put in low grade, or low octane fuel. It will revert to a 'low octane' timing map, and will effectively take out about 15 degrees of timing, that is a lot of power, and a lot of efficiency. For me at least, it would be about 60 miles a tank. Not to mention the damage to my engine that can occur in the time it runs in the high octane map (until it calculates that there is too much knock)

Of course, this only holds true if your ECM is expecting high octane, premium fuel. If not, it's not a big deal, they have the same detergents in them.

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Old 01-26-2007, 08:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Gas knock or pinging is the key from what I understand. If your engine pings and everything is set up correctly use 93 Octaine. Some older engines build up carbon on pistons and that may cause pinging(this is what I was told by the mechanics of old). If your car does not ping use 87 octaine. I use 93 in my 84 Corvette. My Corvettes 350 is modified and dumps much more fuel than the factory ever intended. It even has a newer fuel pump than the orginal because the orginal could not pump enough fuel. My computer was also changed to compensate for all this. Sure Im getting 9.6 mpg according to my fuel readout on the dash but who cares. Its one heck of a ride.Some of the mitsubeschi spyders, BMWs and some other cars require 93 or you will kill the motor.

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Old 02-02-2007, 11:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

High-performance engines, such as those in some sports cars or older, heavier automobiles, often boast much higher compression ratios. These cars—for example, Shepherd's Subaru WRX—require premium gasoline and will definitely knock without it. "I have to put the 92 octane in," he says. "It has a turbocharger."


And that's why I use premium.

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Old 02-02-2007, 12:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

So, whats the outcome? What is better to use? My Aura XE is rated for 87 octane, should I use the higher grade stuff just to be safe?

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Old 02-02-2007, 12:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

You're OK with 87. My Redline has a supercharger, so they recommend premium for that.

My previous SC-2s used 87 and were fine.

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Old 02-02-2007, 01:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

fireman5031,
It can reasonably be assumed that if the owner's manual specifically states that regular 87 octane gasoline is recommended then one should follow the recommendation. As it stands, why would vehicle manufacturers state in the owners manual one octane rating if the car absolutely requires a higher octane? If it can be proven without a shadow of doubt by an independent entity that can be accepted in a court of law then there are definite ramifications. Those ramifications are a failure to disclose, misinformation, false advertising, liability issues that the unknowing public will join together to litigate the vehicle manufacturers, and a sense that the vehicle manufacturers are conspiring to defraud the automotive public. By following the manufacturers recommendation instead of word-of-mouth hearsay you are using the minimum octane required to operate you engine properly. A higher octane is just more money for the gasoline retailer and little benefit to your motor, all things taken into consideration. The car isn't hauling a yacht, four atv's, a motorhome, etc., that would create an undue load upon the engine/transmission system. Then it might warrant buying hi-octane for the time being to allow the engine the slight advantage because of the higher engine load otherwise regular unleaded for everyday use.

By recommending fuel with an octane rating the vehicle manufacturers are protecting themselves from this liability issue especially when a higher octane is needed for high performance engines which are spelled out in the owner's manual and probably labeled appropriately inside the fuel door in bold letters.

Last edited by fdryer; 02-02-2007 at 01:23 PM..

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Old 02-02-2007, 08:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Premium gas provides no advantage on regular cars, all premium means is that it is less likely to combust early under compression(knock).

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Old 03-10-2007, 11:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

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Premium gas provides no advantage on regular cars, all premium means is that it is less likely to combust early under compression(knock).

True, and the reason is because higher octane fuels contain more MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), OR ETBE (ethyl tertiary butyl ether). Both of which are designed specifically to reduce the chance of knock. Premium fuel knocks less because it burns less violently. It's not as combustible. I'm glad I'm not the only person who knows this stuff.

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Old 03-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

well im not an expert but i heard most cars nowadays can run fine on cheap gas(87) there are manufac that recommend higher..my 91 lude si said to run 91 or higher..i only ran 87 had no problems...had a friend who had a mid 90s nissan truck..put upgraded spark plugs and higher fuel and had problems..he took it in and the nissan place said that lot of cars or set up for running on crappy gas so when u put in higher octane and plugs its like ur overdoing it...05 vue here i run 87 have no problems and usually instead of adding additives i everyonce in a while will put in 91 to kinda clean it up some..does that make sense? p.s tho i love hondays esp sanota and accents who in there right mind would still one? lmao..not at u..ya know?

Last edited by silversurfer13; 03-14-2009 at 09:05 AM.. Reason: forgot something

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Old 02-19-2010, 02:57 AM   #15
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The higher compression ratio the engine has the more octaine it needs. My old chevy is 9.5 to 1 and it pings with 87 octaine

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Old 02-22-2010, 12:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

I think if you drive the car hard then it is wise to use a higher octane gasoline.

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Old 03-02-2011, 06:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

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Originally Posted by John Olson View Post
I think if you drive the car hard then it is wise to use a higher octane gasoline.
Fiction

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Old 03-02-2011, 06:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Most of you guys do not know anything about gas and octane. That is fine.
For you just use what the owners manual states to use. In ALL of these cases it does NOT EVER PAY to use higher octane than what the engine is built to run on. That is FACT!

In FACT in most cases the higher octane fuel will burn less efficiently in an engine designed for lower octane and this will hurt your gas milage as you are sending some unburt fuel out the exhaust or some of it is finishing buring in the exhaust system where it does no good for gas milage.

The octane number determines how high you can compress the fuel air mixture before it detonates. High compression engines and turbo and super chargers require higher octane to prevent detonation from happening before the timing triggers the spark plug to fire the mixture.

If you have modified your engine then you should have a working knowledge of octane already and should know what fuel your engine requires.
If not ask your tuner.

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Old 03-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by danhammer View Post
Most of you guys do not know anything about gas and octane. That is fine.
For you just use what the owners manual states to use. In ALL of these cases it does NOT EVER PAY to use higher octane than what the engine is built to run on. That is FACT!

In FACT in most cases the higher octane fuel will burn less efficiently in an engine designed for lower octane and this will hurt your gas milage as you are sending some unburt fuel out the exhaust or some of it is finishing buring in the exhaust system where it does no good for gas milage.

The octane number determines how high you can compress the fuel air mixture before it detonates. High compression engines and turbo and super chargers require higher octane to prevent detonation from happening before the timing triggers the spark plug to fire the mixture.

If you have modified your engine then you should have a working knowledge of octane already and should know what fuel your engine requires.
If not ask your tuner.
He does a good job of a general description. What most are missing is that this question is being applied to Saturns not all vehicles.

Saturns will run on just about anything, but the MPG changes if the gas is bad. There is very limited benefit for high octane in the Saturn engines. Money can be better spent elsewhere. If you swap Therms or Plugs to different degrees of operation then you need to start looking at octane levels.

I run a turbo in one vehicle and an SC in another vehicle. My Turbo will run on lower octane than the SC before detonation. The SC engine has right at 8:1 compression. If I put less than 94 octane in it I pull the pin so the engine retards timing to keep it from knocking. Less power and less efficency, but safe engine.

Change the spark duration and temp or compression levels and you need to change octane to run safely.

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Old 02-22-2010, 02:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djb200882 View Post
The higher compression ratio the engine has the more octaine it needs. My old chevy is 9.5 to 1 and it pings with 87 octaine
Yes but does this Chevy have a distributor ignition system or distributorless ignition, with or without knock sensing? Old school mechanical distributors with rotors, caps, and contact points never had anything but spring loaded centrifugal weights and a vacuum diaphragm for some semblance of advancing/retarding timing. Nothing was done for pinging/detonation prevention except maintaining timing though mechanical means. Those engines couldn't have ideal timing and still prevent pinging so it was more important about which octane was needed. Although those systems were state of the art back then, they still had a lot to be desired. EFI systems with totally electronic controls makes timing more fuel efficient as well as allow better engine performance to take advantage of maximim advance timing right up to detonation where knock sensors are listening for and tell the pcm to retard timing just enough to stop it. Electronics at its best for the highest reaction time to continously changing engine performance as governed by our right foot application - lead footed all out acceleration or granny driving. Knock sensors and the programs to deal with it automatically adjust to every octane number we put in our tanks to maximize engine performance but only up to a point. A car rated for 87 octane will not gain 10, 20, whatever hp (some think) will be gained by using higher octane fuel, only that the engine will run somewhat smoother because of the higher knock resistance accompanying higher octane fuel allowing maximum advanced timing.

Driving a car hard does not mean higher octane is needed. If that were absolutely true then every vehicle manufacturer is lying about octane requirements. I can stand on my gas pedal all day and run with the recommended 87 octane and still never make my engine detonate/ping/knock. I have knock sensing to prevent it and still make maximum power all because of electronic fuel injection and all that it implies. My engine has either a 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression ratio.

Last edited by fdryer; 02-22-2010 at 02:11 PM..

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