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Old 10-18-2004, 07:36 AM   #1
SL1Joe
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Idea Bring Back the S Series

I really think Saturn should not have discontinued the S Series lineup, it's basically what you think of when you think Saturn. Not knockin the ION or anything here as I have never driven one so I can't judge it, but I think it was a mistake to stop production on the S Models.

The potential is there to make an awesome car if it were up to me I would bring them back and in RedLine editions with slightly larger engines. Also I would probably experiment with an All Wheel Drive Model.

Keep in mind everyone i'm still fairly new to Saturn as i've had my SL1 for less then a month but thats just my 2 cents

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Old 10-20-2004, 04:47 PM   #2
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well in terms of sales getting rid of the s series wasn't a too terribly bad thing, it was an 11 year old platform and engine; and if they had carried over the name on a new platform it likely would have been something like the ion. not knockin you now or anything b/c i would have liked to see the 1.9 stick around, maybe as a turbo engine for the redline?

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Old 10-20-2004, 08:11 PM   #3
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saturn should have upgraded the s-series. toss the struts and put double wishbones on each corner. lose the rear drums and have four wheel discs standard. 15 and 16-inch alloy wheels. tweak the 1.9L using variable valve timing and make 100hp/L so it would have 190hp. basically i'd like a Saturn copy of the Honda Integra Type-R with plastic body panels and a hatch instead of the trunk used on the SC coupes.

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Old 10-20-2004, 10:29 PM   #4
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Discontinuing the S-Series had to be done. If they kept it, then we would have wound up with another Cavalier. I'd rather have the S-Series discontinuted and remembered as a landmark vehichle than ridiculously outdated car.

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Old 10-21-2004, 08:55 PM   #5
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they didn't ditch the s series, they just redesigned it and named it the Ion.

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Old 10-22-2004, 10:55 AM   #6
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uh... s-series has nothing in common with ion.

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Old 10-24-2004, 09:21 PM   #7
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the spirit of the S lives on in the doors. and the rear bumper. and the 3rd brakelight.



(polymer, SATURN imprint, roof-mount 3rd brakelight, the last being something hard to come by in most sedans.)

and they're from spring hill.

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Old 10-26-2004, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nuke-Em
Discontinuing the S-Series had to be done. If they kept it, then we would have wound up with another Cavalier. I'd rather have the S-Series discontinuted and remembered as a landmark vehichle than ridiculously outdated car.

Matt
The evolution of the European Cavalier (aka Vectra) took a somewhat different path than the US Cavalier - i.e. it did evolve. It would be nice to have some of those Vauxhall/Opel platforms available in the US, for example,

http://vauxhall.co.uk/showroom/searc...ehicleType=Car
http://vauxhall.co.uk/showroom/searc...ehicleType=Car

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Old 10-26-2004, 03:27 PM   #9
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With Saturn talking about ending polymer bodies, I can't see how anyone would believe that the S series isn't a more modern car than they want to build now.

With the S at 40 mpg, I can't see how it wouldn't sell better than the 34 that the ION gets, with gas at $2/ gallon.

The ion body is ugly, but not any worse than the S. It has more headroom, but the center mounted dash should have been gone after it was clear that the market hated it in the first year of production. I would still buy one if it stayed polymer, and got 40 MPG.

The S was designed to compete with Japanise cars, not to market failed European designs to US consumers. Sadly with GM management monkeying around with a product that they are trying to sell to a market, that they don't understand, all I can see happening is the slow death of Saturn, and the existing bloodlines being canabalized by GMs bigger divisions.

Saturn was the standard bearer for US automotive excellence, now I would say that Ford is closer to attaining that position. The return of Bill Ford, and the axing of Jacques Nassar, was what put Ford in the early 90's GM mindset. Sadly GM, and Saturn are not likely to do anything impressive, unique, and excellent, in the sub-$52,000 market.

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Old 10-26-2004, 06:43 PM   #10
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if the market hates it, then why hasn't it been a complete failure? ion's have sold decently.

and to be fair, the 40 MPG was an SL/SL1 manual tranny highway rating, i believe.

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Old 10-26-2004, 10:19 PM   #11
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I agree on the gas mileage mine gets good mileage but I wouldn't say 40 or even 35 mpg even on the highway but I chalk that up to the engine having over 100,000 miles on it, I suppose if mine was a manual the mileage would be better though but $5 lasting over a week is good enough for me . As for the ION I like the body style somewhat I do like the grills they use on the new sedan models I wouldn't mind seeing an S-Series with one of them, the one quirk I guess I would have with an ION is the damn center mounted cluster, I mean it would make me feel like I was driving a Toyota Echo, they need to move that cluster back to the left behind the steering wheel and use the space where the cluster is now for AC/Heater vents.

As for Saturn doing away with the Polymer panels, two words "Big Mistake", there has to be a way to be able to keep them around and reduce road noise and those so called gaps that GM is talking about. I mean interior insulation is what filters out road noise right? as for those gaps couldn't they use some sort of foam filler on the back of the panels?

I guess Saturn won't be coming out with a Truck lineup using those polymer panels

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Old 11-23-2004, 07:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

[QUOTE=SL1Joe]I agree on the gas mileage mine gets good mileage but I wouldn't say 40 or even 35 mpg even on the highway but I chalk that up to the engine having over 100,000 miles on it, I suppose if mine was a manual the mileage would be better though but $5 lasting over a week is good enough for me QUOTE]


We were pulling 40MPG on my Dad's old '95 SL1 when the tranny let go in it... 390,000km.(240,000ish miles).

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Old 11-23-2004, 09:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin94SL
We were pulling 40MPG on my Dad's old '95 SL1 when the tranny let go in it... 390,000km.(240,000ish miles).
Wow. My old '93 SL1 never got more than 33 mpg (and that was only once, on a long road trip that was all highway driving). It typically averaged around 25-28 mpg. They must have made some big improvements between '93 and '95!

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Old 11-23-2004, 09:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

The S was long in tooth. What would have been nice to see is for GM to move the tools over to China and make them there - polymer and all. They could export some to the USA and sell them in place of the Daewoo Suzukis they are peddling these days. Sell them cheap as heck - just to undercut the krud from Korea and lands far away being dumped here.

They could not have justified keeping the manufacture of them here due to the opportunity costs being far too great - but shipping the manufacture of them to China for sale in China's emerging market would have been cool.

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Old 11-24-2004, 08:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

The SC coupes should at least make a comeback using a slightly larger chassis. With the Camaro no longer being made by the Bowtie boys, Saturn could capitalize and compete with the Mustang using a RWD Chassis. But then I guess the SC would be back in name only since it'd be a completley different car. Or they could keep it a FWD Chassis and compete with the SRT-4, the potential is there and I just don't see the ION doing that.

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Old 11-25-2004, 06:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdp326
i would have liked to see the 1.9 stick around, maybe as a turbo engine for the redline?

ohhhh-hh-h-h-h-h yeah! That would have been the sweetest Satty!! But I have a 94 SC2 and I will never get rid of it.....I like the look and I love that not a >>>>huge<<<< amount of people where I live own one!

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Old 03-23-2005, 02:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

I had a 93 SL1 that got 40 mpg with 60 lbs of compression in 2 cylinders. Every day for years, until the oil pump went up at 270,000 miles. Now I am running a 92 SL2 that gets at least 35, with 175,000 miles.

How can you expect me to pay 12-17K for a car that doesn't do any better than what I've already got. The Corolla can, the TDI VWs can and the Prius can.

The 1st Gen S-series rocks. It is a great car. I really like the idea of selling the tooling to China. or India, then re-exporting them back to the US instead of the Turd-ugly Aveos. Why does GM waste money advertising a car like the Aveo? Its like a Geo Metro, but ugly. Whoever though they should cancel the S-series, and import the Aveo, must have been on drugs.

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Old 03-23-2005, 03:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

The ION never met sales expectations, The S series did. The ION is not a suitable replacement for the S series. It was designed for a younger Gen Y market. The Ion is ok, it is just not the same car the S was. And that is a shame for me, because I would buy s series, even now.

The s-series have a quality, solid, but simple feel to them. I have never owned a car that I like as much. I have never had to have one towed, I have fixed things like bad upper radiator hoses with electrical tape, and driven 80 miles. I have spun them around at 50 mph in the snow, on a few occasions, and they handle as good as can be expected. I have packed 4 people and a 27"TV in a SL. I have been to every state but RI on the Eastern seaboard in my 93 SL1.

I guess that I am just a cheap old geezer, who remembers better days starting a young family, and the great little car that did everything that I needed it to. A car that handeled better than anything else I had owned before, and had enough power to do 80 anywhere I wanted to, getting 40 mpg. Money in my pocket, and no worries. For me, that was a first.

Somewhere, a young family is starting out, and the SL is the perfect car for them. It was for me.

Last edited by LarsfromMars; 03-23-2005 at 03:21 AM..

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Old 03-23-2005, 08:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

It could never happen with the 1.9 liter. The 1.9 liter was not really a "clean" engine by emissions standards, and in its last stages, was the cleanest they could get it... it would never pass future more stringent standards.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bring Back the S Series

Is there a connection between reducing emmisions, and fuel mileage? It seems like Toyota is the only one capable of making a low emmisions, 40 mpg engine. I can deal with the death of the 1.9, but not the whole package. And there is no reason that Saturn couldn't have developed a replacement. If Toyota can do it, Saturn can too. Of course, now that Saturn has been neutered, and is clearly under the direct control of GM management, this is very unlikely.

The Ion ecotech Saab engine is a global engine, and was designed to go into Saturns, Cobalts, Malibus, and other lines to save GM money. GM spent the money on a redesign of the Vette (C-6), when it didn't need one. They spent it on advertising, when it doesn't work with smarter consumers who know better. They spent it on projects like the Aztec, the L series, and many other projects which did not return on investment, or create expected cash flows. They spent very little to even try to update the 1.9. They probably could have gotten away with adding bigger and more catalitic converters, like Ford does. They could have just bought Toyota engines, It didn't stop them with the Vue running Honda engines.

Instead of jumping in the fray, (or even staying in the fight with Saturn)as they did with the launch of the S-series, they put everything into trucks. Now they are paying. And not just Totota, but Kia, Suzuki, and others are taking the buyers that used to buy Saturns. Even with GM loyalty, rebates, and GM card earnings, I would be hard pressed to buy from them now. If I did, I would buy the Matrix/Vibe, only because that cars is closer to the original S series in execution.

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