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Old 07-18-2014, 10:54 PM   #1
jdub
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Default 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

I have a 2008 Vue with the 3.6. No light but have a code P0101 for the maf. I did replace it to try but no change. It has a bad hesitation when accelerating or under engine load. Comes and goes. Sometimes won't do it or can get really bad and will not go over 30. I've checked for intake restriction, fuel pressure, vacuum leaks, and just visual of wiring and components. Please help. I don't know where to go next.

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Old 07-19-2014, 02:21 AM   #2
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

xTooltipElement

Service Information Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help


2008 Saturn VUE - AWD | VUE, VUE Hybrid, Captiva Sport VIN L Service Manual | Document ID: 1910394
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTC P0101 or P1101
Diagnostic Instructions
•Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
•Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
•Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category.
DTC Descriptors
DTC P0101
Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance

DTC P1101
Intake Air Flow System Performance

Diagnostic Fault Information
Circuit
Short to Ground
High Resistance
Open
Short to Voltage
Signal Performance

Ignition 1 Voltage
P0102
P0101
P0102

P0101, P0103

MAF Sensor Signal
P0102
P0102
P0102
P0102
P0101, P0103, P1101

Ground

P0102
P0102

P0102


Typical Scan Tool Data
MAF Sensor Circuit
Short to Ground
Open
Short to Voltage

Operating Conditions: Engine running at various operating conditions

Parameter Normal Range: 2,000–10,000 Hz

Ignition 1 Voltage
0 Hz
0 Hz


MAF Sensor Signal
0 Hz
0 Hz
0 Hz

Ground

0 Hz



Circuit Description
The intake flow rationality diagnostic provides the within-range rationality check for the mass air flow (MAF), manifold absolute pressure (MAP), and the throttle position (TP) sensors. This is an explicit model-based diagnostic containing 4 separate models for the intake system.

•The throttle model describes the flow through the throttle body and is used to estimate the MAF through the throttle body as a function of barometric pressure (BARO), TP, intake air temperature (IAT), and estimated MAP. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAF Performance Test parameter.
•The first intake manifold model describes the intake manifold and is used to estimate MAP as a function of the MAF into the manifold from the throttle body and the MAF out of the manifold caused by engine pumping. The flow into the manifold from the throttle uses the MAF estimate calculated from the above throttle model. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAP Performance Test 1 parameter.
•The second intake manifold model is identical to the first intake manifold model except that the MAF sensor measurement is used instead of the throttle model estimate for the throttle air input. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAP Performance Test 2 parameter.
•The fourth model is created from the combination and additional calculations of the throttle model and the first intake manifold model. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the TP Performance Test parameter.
The estimates of MAF and MAP obtained from this system of models and calculations are then compared to the actual measured values from the MAF, MAP, and the TP sensors and to each other to determine the appropriate DTC to fail. The following table illustrates the possible failure combinations and the resulting DTC or DTCs.

Scan Tool Diagnostic Test Results MAF Performance Test
MAP Performance Test 1
MAP Performance Test 2
TP Performance Test
DTCs Passed
DTCs Failed



OK
OK
P0101, P0106, P0121, P1101
None

OK
OK
Fault
OK
P0101, P0106, P0121, P1101
None

Fault
OK
Fault
OK
P0106, P0121, P1101
P0101

OK
Fault
Fault
OK
P0101, P0121, P1101
P0106

Fault
Fault
Fault
OK
P0121, P1101
P0101, P0106



OK
Fault
P0101, P0106, P1101
P0121

OK
OK
Fault
Fault
P0101, P0106, P0121, P1101
None

Fault
OK
Fault
Fault
P0101, P0106, P0121
P1101


Fault
Fault
Fault
P0101, P0106, P0121
P1101


Conditions for Running the DTCs
•DTCs P0016, P0102, P0103, P0107, P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0128, P0335 or P0336 are not set.
•The engine is running.
•The engine coolant is between 70–125°C (158–257°F).
•The intake air temperature is between −7 and +125°C (+19.4 and +257°F).
•The DTC runs continuously when the above conditions are met.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
The engine control module (ECM) detects that the actual measured airflow from the MAF, MAP, and TP sensors is not within range of the calculated airflow that is derived from the system of models for greater than 2 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
DTCs P0101 and P1101 are Type B DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
DTCs P0101 and P1101 are Type B DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids
•A steady or intermittent high resistance of 15 ohms or greater on the ignition 1 voltage circuit will cause the MAF sensor signal to be increased by as much as 60 g/s.
•Depending on the current ambient temperature, and the vehicle operating conditions, a MAF sensor signal circuit that is shorted to the IAT signal circuit will cause the MAF sensor signal to be skewed or erratic. Additionally, it may cause a rapid fluctuation in the IAT Sensor parameter.
Reference Information
Schematic Reference
Engine Controls Schematics

Connector End View Reference
Component Connector End Views

Electrical Information Reference
•Circuit Testing
•Connector Repairs
•Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
•Wiring Repairs
DTC Type Reference
Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions

Scan Tool Reference
Control Module References for scan tool information

Special Tools
J 38522 Variable Signal Generator

Circuit/System Verification
 1. Verify that the following DTCs are not set: P0641 or P0651.
⇒ If any of the DTCs are set, refer to DTC P0641 or P0651.
 2. Verify that restrictions do not exist in the exhaust system. Refer to Restricted Exhaust.
 3. Engine operating at idle, observe the scan tool MAF Sensor parameter. The reading should be between 2,000–3,800 Hz depending on the ECT.
 4. A wide open throttle (WOT) acceleration from a stop should cause the MAF Sensor parameter on the scan tool to increase rapidly. This increase should be from 2–6 g/s at idle to greater than 180 g/s at the time of the 1-2 shift.
 5. Use the scan tool and compare the MAF Sensor parameter to a known good vehicle, under various operating conditions.
 6. Verify the proper operation of the ECT and IAT sensors. A skewed or stuck ECT or IAT sensor will cause the calculated models to be inaccurate and may cause this DTC to run when it should not. Refer to Temperature Versus Resistance.
 7. Verify the proper operation of the MAP sensor. A skewed MAP sensor will cause the BARO value to be inaccurate. Refer to DTC P0106.
 8. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
Circuit/System Testing
 1. Verify the integrity of the entire air induction system by inspecting for the following conditions:
◦Any damaged components
◦Loose or improper installation
◦An air flow restriction
◦Any vacuum leaks
◦Water intrusion
◦In cold climates, inspect for any snow or ice buildup
◦Inspect the MAF sensor element for contamination.
 2. Ignition OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the MAF sensor.
 3. Ignition OFF for 90 seconds, test for less than 5 ohms between the ground circuit terminal C and ground.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the ground circuit for an open/high resistance.
 4. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp illuminates between the ignition circuit terminal B and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the ignition circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance.
 5. Ignition ON, test for 4.8–5.2 volts between the signal circuit terminal A and ground.
⇒ If less than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 6. Ignition OFF, connect the red lead of the J 38522 to the signal circuit terminal A at the MAF/IAT sensor harness connector. Connect the battery voltage supply to the B+, and ground the black lead.
 7. Set the J 38522 signal switch to 5 volts, the Frequency switch to 5K, and the Duty Cycle switch to Normal.
 8. Engine idling, observe the scan tool MAF Sensor parameter. The scan tool MAF Sensor parameter should be between 4,950–5,025 Hz.
⇒ If the MAF Sensor parameter is not within the specified range, replace the ECM.
 9. If all other circuits test normal, test or replace the MAF sensor.
Repair Instructions
Perform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the repair.

•Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Replacement
•Mass Airflow Sensor with Intake Air Temperature Sensor Replacement
•Control Module References for ECM replacement, setup, and programming
© 2014 General Motors. All rights reserved.

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Old 07-19-2014, 02:25 AM   #3
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

why why why do people throw sensors at a code...07 and up m cars are mostly in the 99% percentile never the sensor.... do you have acces to live data from the ecm???? if so 1st thing in the morning does the iat match the ect reading before start up???

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Old 07-19-2014, 08:45 AM   #4
jdub
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

I have a scan tool that will give me most of the data. I have nor compared readings in the morning. I will check that tomorrow morning. I have noticed the iat seems to be very high like 150 which seems excessive to me when driving around. I was not the one to throw the sensor at it that was the dealer who said nothing was wrong. Would that cause the hesitation and drive ability issue. Thanks for your help.

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Old 07-19-2014, 01:39 PM   #5
satlite440
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

bad dealer,sad to say but the few of us real factory trained techs are getting fewer and fewer..the kids under 40 haven't a clue... look 1st thing in the am before start. does the iat match the ect.. they should due to the 8hr clud soak and should be at less than 10% if they are not 1 is skewed..ect should be ambeant temp for shure so know the temp outside that morning..iat should match it.. if it does..start the wiggle test of wires while watching your scan tool.looking for an increase/decrease in temp caused by the high resistance/poor pin tenshion or worn crimp at the termanl..as you can see from the diag chart just a few ohm's resistance will play havoc... pin tention is critical.. the best tool to use is the j36616-e termanl test kit about 450& outa reach for most dyi's and flate rate tech's as well..i have my own kit as the 1 the shop is supposed to have probably walked off long ago. a cheaper alternative is the buy 2 termanls to use to test the drag test you want slight resistance/drag if it is easy it's no good this need to be cked at the ecm and the sensor harrnes.. I have stuff to do today but if you want I will post the termanl # for you to get them and later the schmatics and pin out charts..but pm me as a reminder.. as you read in the code above this is a complex code as it is set off of a complex algoritham that takes into account the sensor readings but does not rely on those readings to set the code.it is based off the data peramiters exceeding the ROM values stored in the ecm programming..and it only has to exceed the peramiters for a few milliseconds to set..

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Old 07-19-2014, 02:02 PM   #6
jdub
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

Any additional info would be a great help. The other thing I noticed is when it does act up all 4 oxygen sensors went to 10mv. Then once it started to straighten out they started coming back not to mention fuel trims went up as well. At this point I feel it is a wiring issue somewhere due to the fact it is so intermittent and varies in intensity.

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Old 07-19-2014, 04:12 PM   #7
satlite440
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

a good visual inspection of the o2 sensors wire routeing would be in order for all 4 of them..

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Old 07-20-2014, 01:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

At about 9 this morning my temp Hague outside read 70. Scan tool showed 66 ect and 75 iat. Which would be more than the 10% allowable difference. I did a wiggle test and did not notice any change.

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Old 07-20-2014, 03:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

I would be looking at the pin tention on the maf&ecm pins...ect seems about on considering the block will be cooler than ambeant temp..

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Old 07-20-2014, 04:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

Do you know which pins and connector on the ecm I need to check. I also checked my ground resistance, 5 volt ref, and 12 volt supply all looked good. Evan now with ambient temp at 80 it still is reading 91.

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Old 07-20-2014, 08:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

Do you think this could cause the hesitation and loss of power I'm getting? This thing has been nothing but a pain. Again I thank you for all the help you've given.

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Old 07-20-2014, 09:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

Connector Part Information
•OEM Connector: 13520906
•Service Connector: 19151493
•Description: 5-Way F GT 150 Series, Sealed 4.0 (BK)

Terminal Part Information
•Terminal/Tray: 12191819/8
•Core/Insulation Crimp: E/A
•Release Tool/Test Probe: 15315247/J-35616-2A (GY)




above is for maf below is ecm

Connector Part Information
•OEM Connector: 15499466
•Service: 88988931
•Description: 73-Way F MX123 Series, Sealed (BK)

Terminal Part Information
•Pins: 1–9, 11–12, 14–15, 17, 19–24, 27, 29, 30–39, 42–44, 46–54, 56, 57–59, 62–64, 66–69, 71–72
•Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23
•Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 1–9, 14–15, 17, 19–24, 27, 29–39, 42–44, 46–54, 56–59, 62–64, 66–69, 71–72 – J/J
•Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 11–12 – Not Available
•Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)
•Pins: 13
•Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23
•Core/Insulation Crimp: K/K
•Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)
•Pins: 73
•Terminal/Tray: 1326030-8/17
•Core/Insulation Crimp: 4/D
•Release Tool/Test Probe: 12094429/J-35616-4A (PU)
•Pins: 13
Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor – Intake Bank 2


sorry having some issues with the new ccgif viewer saveing to pics...I will have to figure it out
Attached Images
File Type: jpg maf.jpg (108.3 KB, 9 views)

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Old 10-12-2019, 03:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2008 Vue 3.6 hesitation with p0101

OK - I have the same hesitation under load issue... If, by chance, you ever return to this post - I would love to hear what finally resolved it... I do not have any P0101, regardless, I may start with a MAF Sensor swap.

I am certainly not following all the ECM/Jumper testing. I am occasionally handy and willing to try stuff myself before heading to the pros...

Yes - sometime people just throw $50 replacement sensor in... I would rather do that than actually bring it in to have a dealer do the $158/hr of labor and a $100 part - risk/$$ I am willing to take/spend to just try!

Last edited by gill_mn; 10-12-2019 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: forgot to add my skill level...

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