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Old 11-11-2019, 08:12 PM   #1
Cmarie3387
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Wrench Buzzing noise in throttle body

Okay.. I have posted several threads on my 2002 Saturn l300 v6 3.0
The other day my boyfriend cleaned out the throttle body it was filled with oil and dirt. He put the throttle body back on hoping thatís the reason why it is cranking but not starting...battery was almost dead from trying to start the car. The car fired up but only last a few seconds before shutting off. Tried again tonight with almost turning over but not completely. We are hearing a ringing noise coming from the throttle body, we think it may be the sensor? But are not for sure. We did not know that the car may start but will not drive if we unplug the throttle body. When he put the car in the run position I did not see the throttle body flap open at all and when he unplugged the throttle the ringing sound went off. Does this mean I need a new sensor? I also called autozone but they said I would have to replace the throttle body itself it doesnít come with just the sensor itís the whole assembly is that true? Any help is so much appreciated!

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Old 11-11-2019, 09:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

When the gas pedal is pressed, does the throttle plate respond?

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Old 11-11-2019, 09:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

No it does not...the throttle plate does not open what so ever...this is when itís cranking but not starting

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Old 11-11-2019, 09:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Does this car still have the tps high code?

...
2002 L200/5 loaded, loving my stick shift car now with KYB struts and adjustable rear control arms.

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Old 11-11-2019, 10:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Iím not sure what the high code is? And the battery is dead and itís hard to keep the battery charged when trying to turn on the car to start it. The things that we see are car cranks but no start, ringing sound from the throttle bottle, when gas pedal pushed the throttle pedal does not open and we do not hear the fuel pump humming.

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Old 11-11-2019, 11:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Sorry, I mixed up a couple L300s that donít run.

...
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

1-Recharge the battery overnight so there's a fully charged battery to power up electronics in the car. Without a fully charged battery, the EFI system cannot work - a discharged/dead battery trying to power the starter (drawing the most current) and EFI system simply takes away power from the EFI system that may not work. If you can't recharge the battery then use another car battery with jumper cables (not the cheap ones as they'll heat up in protest). Heavy duty jumper cables will help with starting and recharge the dead battery as long as the other car engine is running.

2-The L300 uses drive by wire throttle; the electronic pedal sends signals to the ecm. The ecm sends commands to the electric throttle to move the throttle plate. No cables between pedal and throttle. One easy test of electronics (provided a good battery is powering up things) is turning on ignition (no starting), pressing the pedal down and observing throttle opening and closing. This verifies electronics. If this doesn't occur, more info is needed to determine where the problem lies. You're the eyes and ears for anyone here to provide info on symptoms.

The buzzing noise may be just the electronics using feedback sensors to reposition the throttle plate. Electronically, two position sensors in throttle sends signals back to the ecm. The ecm compares these signals with two position sensors in the pedal. When the four signals are compared to stored memory, the ecm decides where the throttle should be. Servo electric motors used in throttles work against a strong return spring if failure occurs to close throttle. The signals are continually moving throttle to keep it in position as the spring tries to close it. A faint hum is normal. Loud humming or buzzing may indicate a jammed throttle or other problem. With ignition off, you can push throttle open against its strong (internal) return spring. Despite what some may say against opening electric throttles, its perfectly safe to do this. I do it when servicing/checking throttle for dirt or inspection without issues. Ignition must be OFF to push throttle open with fingers or a wooden stick.

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Old 11-12-2019, 10:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

It is raining here but once it stops we will try and charge the battery. My question is what could it be? The ringing noise stops when we turn the car on and try and start it. Only when that ringing noise from
The throttle is on is when the fuel gauge goes to normal when that noise is off it shows the fuel is on empty when itís on half it says service engine soon but as soon as my boyfriend presses down on the throttle body that ringing noise appears and everything on the dashboard is normal and sometimes the car starts for a few seconds then shuts off when let go of the gas pedal.
There is no humming coming from the fuel pump. We are just trying to figure out what it is itís mind boggling.
Also yesterday when he pushed his foot on the gas pedal when in run position the throttle plate did not open...
So we will try this all again today at some point and will get back to you on an update

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Old 11-12-2019, 05:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Unless you are given better suggestions from another member, please heed any suggestions given. I replied to your private message.

You're dealing with electronic fuel injection and electronically controlled throttle/ electronic pedal. Your car has the most sophisticated electronics possible and not diy friendly with home repairs unless you have advanced knowledge in electronics, EFI systems, drive by wire throttle, diagnosing and troubleshooting vehicle electronics. No carburetor, no distributor. All electronics.

The main parts of EFI systems in this car are; throttle assembly, pedal, ecm, all sensors and fuel pump. Whether you know it or not, you're diagnosing and troubleshooting on an advanced level most diyers will not understand due to electronics playing a major role in most vehicles.

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Old 11-13-2019, 08:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Okay so my boyfriend charged the battery to the car...we then tried again and heard this louder ticking noise coming from the throttle body (in video) then we unplugged the throttle body and the car fired up and ran for about a few minutes then shut off. Perhaps do I need an ECM? Iím just letting you know of the newest update now when the throttle body was plugged back in the car did not start.


Iím not sure how to share this video on YouTube?

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Old 11-13-2019, 08:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Easy peasy. After posting a million times, members get to post links. Newbies simply type in the actual url address in its entirety while leaving spaces here and there so this site doesn't recognize it as a link and prevents new members from posting. After 15 posts, links can be copied and pasted here so anyone can click on a link and view what's what. So far, no one here has deliberately linked to spam or malicious sites. Honesty still rules the day for most sites.

Personally, I haven't tried disconnecting my throttle assembly and trying to start my engine because I haven't run into this problem and this isn't troubleshooting per se. I can guess why your throttle being disconnected allows the engine to startup and run but that would be second guessing on my part as it doesn't help me understand what failed and why throttle doesn't work when plugged in (as it should be). As it stands, all you've proven is that this throttle assembly fails to work when plugged in. I cannot state with certainty that a replacement will correct all your problems but you are between a rock and a hard place to decide on what to do next. Going only by what you've done, it appears a replacement throttle is needed. Preferably a new one or at least one in working condition. Your choice.

The TAC (throttle actuator control) module consists of; a dc servo motor, dual feedback position sensors, a temperature sensor to monitor incoming air temps, and an old style analog type resistor on a circuit board. A wiper arm slides across this resistor to vary the signal output, sent to the ecm for the ecm to determine what fuel mixtures are needed. In effect, three throttle position sensors are used with the dual feedback sensors acting in the best interests of the the EFI system along with the other dual feedback sensors in the pedal to prevent engine runaway. To date, not one vehicle using this type of drive by wire system has resulted in an inadvertent engine runaway - an uncontrolled engine revving up and crashing, injuring the driver, passengers and anyone nearby. New throttle assemblies aren't cheap (check rockauto prices). Used may be the way to go from nearby junk yards with zero guarantees other than replacing one if it doesn't work at all. Online used parts are another area to search.

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Old 11-14-2019, 12:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Okay here is the video on YouTube of the sound

This is while the throttle body is connected

https://youtu.be/Z8qqKOvFVJE

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Old 11-14-2019, 12:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Another thing that myself and my boyfriend possibly figured out. The fuel pump we heard today slight ďhumming noiseĒ in the backseat on the right side. When we put the car in the RUN position it started humming now it came and went several times we heard it several times it was silent. We went inside and searched for ecm what can occur in a car if itís malfunctioning. My boyfriend searched what does the ecm look like in my Saturn he then believed he made a mistake. He did not know thatís what my ecm looks like but said when he was doing the valve cover gaskets he had to sort of in his words unplug one of the cords running to the ecm. He said I might have not put it on all the way he doesnít really remember...now before he did the valve cover gaskets we got a used battery because the one that came with the car was shot so he left the Saturn with no battery for several weeks until the job for the valve covers were done. Upon our research if you leave the car without a battery for awhile the computer resets then you must do a pass lock once you reset the battery. So we learned these things tonight we are going to check tomorrow to see if that plug to the ecm is connected all the way, resetting the battery and doing the pass lock in the key fob. Hopefully it works out because we never did the pass lock before so maybe thatís why the car is locking up...to be continued

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Old 11-14-2019, 10:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

I watched your video and all I could hear was the loud tapping. So I guess that is the noise you are trying to convey to us. It is very difficult to make any accurate diagnosis when you are not physically present, but you could check out the following as my son had issues with this one time a year or so ago and the tap, tap sound was very similar.

The V6 has an "Upper Manifold Intake Runner" installed in the the inlet manifold on top (the silver casting with the Saturn emblem) on. Looking from the front of the car, to the right of that casting at the very end, you will see a component that is bolted into the end of the casting and has a couple of pipes and vacuum tube connected to it. That is the Intake Runner".

Removing the bolts and the component will pull out. It is basically another valve that is designed to open above a certain rev range. It is mechanical spring actuated flap valve and may be in need of a clean and some lubrication. His was stuck. When I fixed my son's, what I also found was that this secondary valve is opened and closed by the vacuum solenoid just to the left of that valve (just follow the vacuum tubing). Again, it is easy to remove to clean.

What I found on his was that the solenoid valve which controls the opening/closing basically wasn't working cleanly and was very sticky. You should be able to check this by pushing/pulling on the lever. The lever should move freely. I fixed his by simply lubricating the solenoid it with some spray lubricant. I can't recall whether I used WD40 or Silicone lubricant. The innards of that valve will likely be rubber, so use whatever will not damage it. I had sprayed his and let it sit to allow the lubricant soak inside and get to work. In the end the lever moved really freely and the tapping went away completely. I have never had to revisit that component since.

I have a Haynes manual and nowhere is that component mentioned. You can google it and it's hard to find anything on it.

I'm not saying this is the culprit, but it's a no cost check and fix and one less off the culprit list.

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Old 11-14-2019, 09:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

More explanations and video helps. The key to all these mystery symptoms may be with the ecm. The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is the 5"x5" square aluminum thingy sitting on the right side of the engine near the brake master cylinder reservoir (the translucent container holding brake fluid). The ecm has two Siamese electrical connectors on top, covering the ecm underneath the two multiple pin connectors. Whatever was done when reconnecting each connector may be the reason for throttle banging away loudly and the no start issue. The ecm must be securely bolted to the engine - the engine provides electrical ground. The ecm has a wired ground in its harness but also needs to be physically bolted to the engine for as additional ground. One member didn't mention a loosely mounted ecm and had unusual starting problems until mentioning it later in his thread. Once the ecm was bolted onto its mounts, the engine started up without any more issues.

Do not disconnect ecm connections unless the battery negative cable is disconnected first. Power is always on in the ecm. Memory in the ecm needs power while the main part of it sleeps. With multiple pin connectors and cumbersome wire harness, disconnecting each plug may be easy but reconnection can introduce major problems; bending pins, breaking pins, inadvertently touching one pin to another with battery power still connected even when the ignition switch is turned off. The ecm is the brains of the entire EFI system that makes the engine run. Short circuit its connections with power while reconnecting each plug can damage it. If in doubt, disconnect battery power first then carefully disconnect each plug and examine male and female terminals. And be sure each plug mates only to its matching connector. While the plugs and wires are stiff enough not to be bent to reverse connections, there should be mating keys on each plug to ensure incorrect connections isn't possible unless mishandled. Again, do not disconnect any ecm connections before disconnecting battery power. Do not worry about Passlock relearn for now. Worse case scenario is a pin was bent and not making connections and voltages didn't power the ecm correctly. Worry about Passlock relearning after ensuring both multiple pin connectors didn't damage male/female connections. Once assured both ecm connections are correctly connected, reconnect battery power and turn on ignition. Post results whether the loud throttle noise is gone or not. If the noise is gone, try starting. Check to see that security is off, not flashing.

Last edited by fdryer; 11-14-2019 at 09:08 PM..

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Old 11-18-2019, 04:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Just read your messages now, we will do this tomorrow. Thursday my boyfriend got the car running all he did was with ignition off tighten the ecm two cords to make sure they werenít loose, he disconnected battery to reset it for about 15 mins then reconnected the battery and the car started perfectly he took it for a spin and ran beautifully. I got the car registered and insured and took it to bring him to work Saturday night. He did an oil change and put coolant in it. Everything ran great we were so excited! Brought him to work turned the car off then moments later turned it on reversed and was waiting to get on the road due to passing cars and was in idle and the car stalled....brought it back in the parking lot and shut it off. Turned it back on and didnít start. Nothing was loose he now double checked everything it did start up and we put fresh fuel in the gas station and stalled at the pump long story short we had to have it towed back home every time the car idled it stalled.....now it does have check engine light on and we put the code reader in and got the following codes.. p0502, p0503, p0562, p0563, p0601, p0603, p0727, p0756, u2105, p1621, p1779, p1791.

All relate to the pcm! I need to get this car on the road ASAP and was going to purchase a new pcm tomorrow from flagship one that is refurbished. Should I proceed to just do that? Or is there any other steps I should take ?

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Old 11-18-2019, 12:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

All these symptoms and error codes seem to be ecm related especially when its disconnected and inadvertently reconnected incorrectly without being certain of correct reconnections.

To sum it all up from my previous reply, disconnect battery negative first. With battery power disconnected, carefully disconnect each ecm cable (or at least the one that was disconnected and reconnected) and examine male and female terminals for damage. Carefully reconnect to ecm then reconnect battery negative and try starting.

Personally, I doubt the ecm was damaged but theirs always a first time for diyers to create circumstances that no one anticipates in field repairs with unfamiliarity in handing electronics. It's always your choice to continue troubleshooting and come to a successful outcome and/or try a replacement ecm. Replacing a ecm requires a 30 minute relearn procedure, marrying the new ecm to the bcm as part of Passlock security otherwise you'll see security flashing - Passlock disables injectors to prevent the engine from running whether a theft attempt or ecm/bcm was replaced without performing a 30 minute relearn.

Relearn procedure is basically turning on ignition, momentarily turn to START, releasing key back to ON/RUN position and wait ten minutes then turning off ignition. Repeat two more times. On the fourth ignition on cycle, try starting as security should stop flashing (Passlock security relearned between ecm and bcm).

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Old 11-18-2019, 12:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Yes Iím going to do that today! Iím going to disconnect the battery, now do I have disconnect negative and positive or just negative is enough?
I will pull out the ecm both cables and check as you said for damage. I will then plug them back and connect battery and start car see if that works...I will
Get back to you on the results. If it doesnít I should probably order an ecm and have it mailed and do the pass lock. Cross your fingers

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Old 11-18-2019, 01:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Disconnecting battery negative is all that's necessary to remove all power to the car. Hopefully, no damage occurred and at worst, maybe a bent pin that can be straightened. Fingers crossed....

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Old 11-18-2019, 05:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: Buzzing noise in throttle body

Suppose it might help to clean the computer connections with QD Electronic Cleaner when it is checked for a bent pin?

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