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Old 12-08-2019, 09:23 AM   #1
datlas
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Default Annual Angst

I am the original owner of my 1998 SL. 179K.

I love the car, but my wife thinks itís a bucket of bolts and thinks that any repair/maintenance over approx $300 is a waste of money and should signal that I pitch the car.

It is due for annual inspection this month. I am hopeful they donít find anything terribly wrong, or it could be the end.

Stay tuned for an update.

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Old 12-08-2019, 01:33 PM   #2
cgg17
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I am the original owner of my 1998 SL. 179K.

I love the car, but my wife thinks itís a bucket of bolts and thinks that any repair/maintenance over approx $300 is a waste of money and should signal that I pitch the car.

It is due for annual inspection this month. I am hopeful they donít find anything terribly wrong, or it could be the end.

Stay tuned for an update.
If it is a manual Sl, it would be worth dumping some money into it.
If not, there's plenty of people around that would take it off of your hands. If you're near me (Quakertown PA) I might be one of those people...

...
1994 Sl2 5spd: 56,576 (Totaled 1/10/2018)
1995 Sl2 5spd Manual Swap: 150,062
1999 Sl2 4spd: 98,8xx

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Old 12-08-2019, 01:50 PM   #3
datlas
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgg17 View Post
If it is a manual Sl, it would be worth dumping some money into it.
If not, there's plenty of people around that would take it off of your hands. If you're near me (Quakertown PA) I might be one of those people...
Of course manual. If I really have to pitch it, I will likely offer it up here as a parts car or project.

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Old 12-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Of course manual. If I really have to pitch it, I will likely offer it up here as a parts car or project.
I will have to keep my eyes peeled.
Hope it passes though, it is no fun having to dump off a good vehicle.

...
1994 Sl2 5spd: 56,576 (Totaled 1/10/2018)
1995 Sl2 5spd Manual Swap: 150,062
1999 Sl2 4spd: 98,8xx

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Old 12-08-2019, 02:46 PM   #5
454cid
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Default Re: Annual Angst

If it's not rusty, and you haven't had raccoons living in it, I don't see the sense of a $300 cap on expenditures. A newer vehicle is quite likely to be more complicated to work on, and more expensive.

...
2000 SL2 Automatic (back on the road) 17X,XXX miles.
1999 Chevy K3500

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Old 12-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454cid View Post
If it's not rusty, and you haven't had raccoons living in it, I don't see the sense of a $300 cap on expenditures. A newer vehicle is quite likely to be more complicated to work on, and more expensive.
Amen! I just bought $250 worth of parts for the '99 and will need to spend another $100 for alignment when we are done. Money well spent!

...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018

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Old 12-08-2019, 09:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Annual Angst

454cid and Waiex191, I completely disagree with your assessments. Hold onto your bats for a bit. It may that datlas' wife isn't familiar with long term expenditures, buying a new car and having loan payments including interest in trade for a few years of trouble free driving along with a new car warranty as opposed to keeping a daily driver free of payments and replacing parts at the diy level that usually costs less for long term ownership. Maybe the OP and wife are well off financially and can afford a new vehicle with the wife hinting of the clunker in the driveway being replaced with a new car/suv/truck/mobile home/whatever. I don't know and am not enquiring since its none of my business.

My idea is to drive my car ('03 L300) until its completely falling apart and has to be towed away to the junk yard. Since I bought it back in '05, I've replaced the alternator twice, spark plugs once, oils, air, fuel filters, struts, tires, rims, brakes, rotors, steel bushings, xmission oil and filter, fuel pump, batteries, headlights, fuses, wipers, washer fluid, diy tire plugs, two lower arms, lifetime wheel alignment plan, timing belt, water pump, idler pulleys for the timing belt, and almost all the brake lines. Fuel pump, brake lines, one lower control arm and one flex pipe were shop repaired/replaced. All other work were mine to save on hourly labor rates every repair shop adds to marked up parts. I think I'm doing ridiculous repairs to a 16yr old car and sometimes consider if I should "cut my losses" and buy a new or used car. I can afford to buy new without loan payments with added interest but I'm reluctant about higher insurance rates since fire and collision are necessary compared to just carrying higher liability and a tow plan. I've used the tow plan twice and the first one was equivalent to half a year of insurance costs. If I considered used, I'd have to consider hidden issues that may not be apparent and add to costs after purchase if I'm not careful about sellers hiding things. With a known vehicle, I'm left with a running car with 108k miles and still returns fuel mileage the same as the day it was made. Not great nor poor but correct. Nothing I do to the engine has altered this as I'm only the health care provider whenever it needs parts to keep it on the road. Being buried in all the parts costs, bruised muscles and scraped skin, and time spent performing repairs, I never examined my costs/insurance/time spent against paying a repair shop to perform all the work. My guess is I saved money from hourly labor rates and discounted parts to malinger under and around the car making feeble attempts at repairs that hasn't killed or injured anyone with diy maintenance. And passes NYS inspections.

I think if a vehicle owner pays for all periodic repairs and maintenance to dealer or repair shop, this alone dictates sooner vehicle replacement/turnover than a diyer making most repairs at home. If there are two major variables, paying someone for repairs tends to sway anyone from keeping a vehicle longer compared to diyers willing to make repairs at home to extend the time of ownership from savings not paid for hourly labor and marked up parts. I admit not having a degree in economics so if I offend anyone, my apologies if my point of view is incorrect. I'm open to criticism and correction. Maybe my next car will be a Tesla Model-3.......208 vac plug and wearing out the electric meter.

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Old 12-08-2019, 10:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Annual Angst

I don't totally disagree with you fdryer. If you are paying someone to do the work, a new car will win out sooner or later. I'm personally less concerned with datlas and his wife than my own kids, who I am teaching to do their own work. They know they will always be able to buy a car for cash, and never have a car payment.

...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018

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Old 12-08-2019, 10:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Annual Angst

I failed....... trying to insert as much sarcasm into the first sentence or whatever adjective fits into my previous reply.

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Old 12-08-2019, 10:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: Annual Angst

If I had to pay somebody else to install all of the parts for my 95, I would be in the hole a good number. It would have been cheaper to buy a newer car.
But, since I did most of it myself, the car didnt cost me much.,
It all depends on how much you value the car, and how much longer you want to keep it going.

...
1994 Sl2 5spd: 56,576 (Totaled 1/10/2018)
1995 Sl2 5spd Manual Swap: 150,062
1999 Sl2 4spd: 98,8xx

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Old 12-09-2019, 09:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Getting into a new car does have hidden costs. The main one I'd be concerned about is the maintenance requirements required for the warranty. You're committing to following the maintenance plan of the manufacture and pretty well at dealership prices. Some of those maintenance intervals can cost into the $300+ range. Those are not repairs but rather simple things you can do on your own for next to nothing.

The only way to get ahead if you choose to change cars is to find one used that is outside the manufacture warranty and has incurred its initial depreciation. I don't think you're going to find many cars that are as inexpensive to run than the Saturn. You will find newer cars with lots of technology and gadgetry. That in itself can pose some challenges when things go wrong.

...
1999 SL2 MT (287,130 km @ 10/2019)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

:canada:

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Old 12-09-2019, 11:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I love the car, but my wife thinks itís a bucket of bolts and thinks that any repair/maintenance over approx $300 is a waste of money and should signal that I pitch the car.
Dunno if it will work for your wife, but the two things that work for mine:

1) I really like this car. Maybe there is a sentimental reason ("it's the car I was driving when I met you, sweetie: ) - maybe a practical reason (my '97 SC2 has been a source of immediate parts - if I didn't have that car, I would have had to take a few hours to hit a junkyard and find a replacement axle when the one on my '02 SC2 broke - instead, I pulled and replaced the axle in an afternoon)

2) Financially - paying $300 two or three times a year (in a bad year) for maintenance still comes out ahead of 12 months of $200 lease payments or $300 loan payments. Not to mention, my insurance costs are a lot lower as is my annual plate registration (mostly based on MSRP when new)

...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
7/2010 Craigslist white 1997 SC2 project
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles

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Old 12-09-2019, 02:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Annual Angst

I love the bucket of bolts... first car I ever bought, and super thankful for the 180k miles I've put on it in 14 years. That said, my own satty is indeed 22 and all good things eventually come to an end. It's still my daily driver, but it really does look like a 22 year old car at this point.

Practically speaking, for me it's a question of "what is going to replace it, and what will it cost?", not necessarily what the car is worth. While there's cheap $ for parts, my time and effort into maintenance are catching up. This year in particular seemed to be pretty bad, and now the valve cover is leaking again..

Of course there's other intangibles on "cost". The Mrs. doesn't like riding in this car, and I do have another DD standing by (I saved a nice 2005 Acura TL from a friend - which is also not new by any stretch of the imagination, but is way nicer than the satty). Hard to put a price on some things.

But good luck to you! Let us know how it goes.

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Old 12-10-2019, 01:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
2) Financially - paying $300 two or three times a year (in a bad year) for maintenance still comes out ahead of 12 months of $200 lease payments or $300 loan payments. Not to mention, my insurance costs are a lot lower as is my annual plate registration (mostly based on MSRP when new)
Surprised no one mentioned insurance sooner. A newer car costs a lot more to insure and, if you're making payments, you need the entire package.

And honestly, that price limit is just.... dumb. You can argue even routine oil changes, after a point, cost more than what you paid for the car. It honestly sounds like she wants a new shiny instead of seeing a 21yr old car.

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Old 12-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Michigan has the highest insurance rates in the nation, last I checked.

I've paid more to insure my Saturns than I paid to buy and maintain them
(and I just carry the most basic insurance, no comprehensive or collision insurance)

...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
7/2010 Craigslist white 1997 SC2 project
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles

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Old 12-11-2019, 01:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amak View Post
Surprised no one mentioned insurance sooner. A newer car costs a lot more to insure and, if you're making payments, you need the entire package.

And honestly, that price limit is just.... dumb. You can argue even routine oil changes, after a point, cost more than what you paid for the car. It honestly sounds like she wants a new shiny instead of seeing a 21yr old car.
This is probably it, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you have the means, get your wife a new car and keep the Saturn for yourself. But the fact of the matter is; maintenance and repair of an older will never surpass the cost of a new car.

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Old 12-12-2019, 11:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Annual Angst

There is nothing wrong with my 22 year old Saturn, except that it's a 22 year old Saturn. Sure I can do most of the repairs it ever needs, but what I've realized is the time it takes to do all the repairs, I'll never get that back!

Last week I changed out a front wheel bearing in my driveway and it never went above 0 outside. It took me 3 days in total, working on the car after work sometimes in the dark. When the wind would pick up I froze and said the heck with this, I'm going inside

So ya, those times when my hands and feet are frozen, and yet another bolt head has started to round from rust and being loosened and tightened too many times, I do start to fantasize about buying a new car.....

...
My 96 SL2 and 98 SL1 have joined together to become one. So I guess I now have a 1996/8
SL1-2.

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Old 12-12-2019, 11:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Annual Angst

^ Would you consider a portable Coleman catalytic heater (propane) for those occasions when working outdoors?

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Old 12-12-2019, 01:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Tell the MRS that every dollar you save on your Saturn is another dollar you can spend on her...

besides, 179k is a baby

Highmile
'95 SL1 697k and counting

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Old 12-12-2019, 01:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Annual Angst

Make a sun/rain/wind block out of a harbor freight silver tarp, pvc pipe, some bungee cords and tent stakes

I used to do this when I didn't have a garage and it works great compared to being exposed it won't work in really high wind situations being that it is a giant sail unless you tie it together and down very well

Don't glue the fittings and when you are done lay the tubes down and roll the tarp around them and it stores away without taking too much room

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