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Old 01-18-2009, 02:41 AM   #21
Canyon
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

The black o-ring I believe is for the oil pickup tube. The small red o-ring is for the oil dipstick tube. I think the 4 bolts may be for the timing chain guides and do not come with the FelPro gasket set so I can't be sure on that one.

There are only 2 oil galley plugs on the back side of the block. The third oil galley plug goes between the two gears attached to the cams. The third oil galley hole on the back side of the block is for the oil pressure sending unit.

The larger silver thin washer is for the water outlet tube that goes to the heater core that is located right below the tube for the thermostat.

That normal looking 3/8 size washer....I have not a clue.

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Old 01-25-2009, 11:14 AM   #22
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

I replaced the old oil pan two days ago with a new one. The old one was leaking, I think, because I damaged the flange in the process of removing the crank pulley and then prying the pan off the block. Now the new one is leaking. The pan I got was an aftermarket part. When I picked it up and gave it a once-over everything looked right. Later, I noticed some differences in its design: the drain plug is a 13mm bolt (a loose 13mm - but a 12mm doesn't fit), larger than the old plug, and doesn't have a rubber gasket; the flange groove is intermittent, meaning the groove doesn't run continuously along the insides of the bolt holes - just on the flange where the bolt holes aren't; and the bolt holes are slightly larger than in the original. I installed it and also noticed that the two rear bolts by the flywheel were much less accessible than with the original.
I used Permatex Ultra-Black (which is oil resistant and sensor safe) to draw a nice 4mm bead around the flange inside of the bolt holes and then installed the pan shortly thereafter. I finger-tightened the bolts then torqued them in a middle-out sequence a little at a time until I reached 80 in/lbs. Then I let it sit for 28 hours before putting the oil in. Leak.

I'm going to try it again, but I'm wondering if I should try a different approach, considering the slightly different design of this pan: rtv around the bolt holes and on the undersides of the bolt heads?; let the sealant skin for a time, or cure until hardened, before installation?; or follow the Permatex instructions and, "6. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet. 7. Finger tighten flange only until material begins to seep out the sides of the flange. 8. Allow to set for at least two hours and re-torque at least one quarter to one half turn.?"; or just get an oil pan from Saturn and try to return this one as defective?

Good news is, I replaced the crankshaft pulley as well as the bolt and washer because I noticed a slight wobble - probably from trying to remove the 3-day bolt. I couldn't tell whether it was the pulley or the bolt so I replaced both. The pulley is aftermarket. The bolt is from Saturn. It rotates without any wobble now.

I'm determined to fix this leak - so I can happily move on to fixing a half dozen other things with the SL2.

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Old 01-25-2009, 12:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

First thing you should do is use the proper Saturn anaerobic gasket sealer as the car was assembled with. It isn't RTV. If the original oil pan wasn't rusty why did you replace it? When we do the oil pans in the shop do you think we wait for the sealant to dry before doing anything else? We would all go broke and our families would starve. Original or aftermarket oil pan should make no difference. Remove the pan, clean it up, get the right sealant. Make sure the block surface is clean and dry. Apply an even bead around the perimeter of the pan, put it up to the car. Put the bolts in and tighten them down to proper torque. Fill it up with oil and drive away. Never had a leaker and my best time doing an oil pan on an S Series car in the shop on a lift is 20 minutes start to finish.

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Old 01-26-2009, 01:35 AM   #24
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

When I do them this is how they look before I install them.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...0/ppuser/32013

I use Ultra Black. I then torque them to 80 in/lbsc and most times I let them sit overnight before filling with oil.

Never had one leak yet.

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Old 11-30-2010, 01:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Excellent documentation! Just started this same job today.

Working on removing the intake manifold and having some trouble with the power steering pump. I've removed two bolts on the pulley side and one on a bracket connecting to the underside of the intake. Can't see any others that are accessible without removing the pulley, and the pump doesn't feel loose at all.

any thoughts?
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:29 AM   #26
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

There is a hole in the pulley so you can get at it and there may be a bracket on the back. The easy way is to remove the 3 bracket bolts and leave the pump bolted to the brackets. This is a link to a pix of the brackets. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=145250&page=8 post #351. You may benefit from reading this entire thread, it will take awhile..

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Old 11-30-2010, 05:38 PM   #27
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Great detail on the rebuild. I am planning a stock rebuild for my daughter's 02 SL1. I have an engine lift and stand, so there is no reason not to pull the motor out for this job.

What type of hone did you use? hone-oil?

Did your new rings seal ok? Any noticable oil burning?

Compression ok?

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Old 11-30-2010, 05:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

You can not do a proper rebuild in frame. You can pull it off if you have to but it is not recommended and there are things that will just be guessed at. Read the thread I referenced above and just pull both the engine and transmission as a unit from the top. Have the block boiled out, measured and bored or honed by a competent machine shop. Without the proper measuring tools all you can do is guess at the wear, taper, and out of round of the cylinders. For the money that a proper rebuild costs you only want to do it once.

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Old 11-30-2010, 08:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaddurbox View Post
Can't see any others that are accessible without removing the pulley, and the pump doesn't feel loose at all.
Another approach.. This video shows the bolt locations. No need to suck the PS fluid out as you're not disconnecting the pump. Just tie it up out of the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pxK8fRsNMM

This is the illustration ON was trying to point to.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...2&d=1258768619
Those brackets take a little head scratching to figure out.

...
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Last edited by off-track; 11-30-2010 at 09:01 PM..

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Old 12-02-2010, 12:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Thanks OldNuc, I felt a bit of an idiot when I read your post. Came off just fine.

Now i'm having a crazy difficult time with the damper/pulley bolt. did the same thing Billing did and messed up the oil pan gasket area a bit. Hopefully I won't have to replace that. Spent about 4 hours on this bolt today. Tried my Impact wrench rated for 95 PSI max. That did nothing. tried jamming stuff in the pulley. Broke about 6 tools including my 21mm socket, an extension, a 1/2" to 3/8" reducer, and a screwdriver I jammed in the pulley. Finally gave up for the night.

Was thinking I'd try bumping the starter to break the bolt in the morning. can't post the link to the youtube video I found but it's called "removing saturn crank pulley by bumping the starter"

Dunno what other options I have.

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Old 12-02-2010, 10:24 AM   #31
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

There's no oil pan gasket - just RTV (or Ultra Blue Hylomar Racing in my case, thanks, OldNuc for the suggestion I love that stuff)

Crankcase pulley is a pain the first time. I used an inexpensive 48" (?) prybar (Harbor Freight) but it was pretty thick, maybe 3/4". That, and a 24" breaker bar, plus removing the bumper so I could stand and move the breaker bar (I kept hitting the bumper before) - didn't need to resort to an extension

The bump method did not work for me.

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Old 12-02-2010, 12:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaddurbox View Post
Thanks OldNuc, I felt a bit of an idiot when I read your post. Came off just fine.

Now i'm having a crazy difficult time with the damper/pulley bolt. did the same thing Billing did and messed up the oil pan gasket area a bit. Hopefully I won't have to replace that. Spent about 4 hours on this bolt today. Tried my Impact wrench rated for 95 PSI max. That did nothing. tried jamming stuff in the pulley. Broke about 6 tools including my 21mm socket, an extension, a 1/2" to 3/8" reducer, and a screwdriver I jammed in the pulley. Finally gave up for the night.

Was thinking I'd try bumping the starter to break the bolt in the morning. can't post the link to the youtube video I found but it's called "removing saturn crank pulley by bumping the starter"

Dunno what other options I have.
The starter bump is worth the try.

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Old 12-02-2010, 01:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

It's possible to do a decent rebuild in-frame. It won't be by the book but if you are mainly doing it to fix oil burning, you can do it for much less cost than a full rebuild. I have a 97 SC2 that was burning a quart every 100 miles. I did an in-frame rebuild on it 4 years ago. I replaced the piston rings and rod bearings and it has gone another 80,000 miles (and still going) without any further issues. I would also recommend a rebuild on the cylinder head and replacing the timing chain while you are at it. The previous owner had already done that on this car so I left them alone.

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Starter bump worked. First try. Also removed the timing cover, sprockets, guides and tensioner. Just pulled the head and noticed that there is oil sitting on top of the piston in my first cylinder. I'm very new to this(my first, if only partial, rebuild). Is that bad?

Couple pics of the cylinder in question.
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File Type: jpg 1202182012.jpg (145.2 KB, 35 views)

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Take a scotch brite, the yellow sponge with teh green pot scrubber on the back works very well, and clean off all the carbon at the top of each cylinder. Just stuff a rag in the bore first to catch any chunks and scrub it clean. You can use WD-40 as a lubricant and the scotch brite will cut through the carbon quicker. Once cleaned off Run your fingernail up under the ridge on both the intake and exhaust side of the cylinder and see if your nail catches under the ridge. Do this with the 1st joint in your finger touching the cylinder wall. Also note if you feel the nail ride over the ridge but not catch. Post back what you find.

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Old 12-02-2010, 11:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Thanks all for the help so far. Especially OldNuc. Prolly won't be able to do much until early next week. I'll keep you all posted.

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Old 12-03-2010, 02:08 AM   #37
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Chaddurbox, you are not too far from me, I am just south of Minneapolis. Interested to see how your rebuild turns out since I will need to do my own oil burner in the springtime.

...
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaddurbox View Post
Starter bump worked. First try. Also removed the timing cover, sprockets, guides and tensioner. Just pulled the head and noticed that there is oil sitting on top of the piston in my first cylinder. I'm very new to this(my first, if only partial, rebuild). Is that bad?

Couple pics of the cylinder in question.
Hello all,

I'm new here and found the proceeding threads VERY useful, but noticed several concerns with removing the crank bolt.
Is the concern due to trying this by yourself from the front?
I usually jam the flywheel against the block , due to its greater available size/torque, with a REALLY large screwdriver while
another twists a 1/2 breaker bar with the top part of the floor jack handle as a cheater.
No chance to damage the front cover or harmonic damper.

1992 SL2 auto
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1996 SL2 auto
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

It is easy when you have help....

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Old 12-03-2010, 08:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: 1996 Saturn SL2 In-Car Rebuild

To remove the damper bolt I just use my 1/2 in twin impact wrench. Never had any problems getting them off.

If you don't have a twin 1/2 in impact wrench and are still having trouble, turn up the pressure to 120 psi on your single 1/2 in impact wrench. It'll give you significantly more torque. I know what the manufacturers say but I have done this for years and never had any problems.

Last edited by Canyon; 12-03-2010 at 08:52 PM..

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