1998 Saturn SL2 won't start when parked on driveway incline

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

The first fuel filter was not a GM part. That was put in in 2012 and caused problems by 2014. We bought a GM fuel filter with internal regulator from GM Parts online and that solved the choking problem in 2014. This GM fuel filter from 2014 has 20K miles on it.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

Just to clarify/confirm - you hold the gas pedal all the way to the floor, then turn the key while keeping the gas pedal on the floor? (no pumping the pedal, as that is leftover from the carburetor days)

You can oil up the boyfriends, too, but don't use motor oil

Yes, keeping the pedal all the way to the floor when trying to start. No pumping.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Alright, here's my best attempt at an update. I'm exhausted. Been fussing with the D@#%(U&*#$ car all day.

My cousin was able to spend the day with me working on it. Long story, short; it still doesn't start.

Went to 3 O'Reilly's this morning and purchased:
STD PC48 Crnkshft Sen
MPI 2-9386 Cool Temp Sw
CTI 85137 harness
MCS 8099 oil cap
MIM 25324 sealing tape
CHV 37378 Techron Himi
DOR 645-900 pigtail

Installed all of these things.

Cousin and Dad are thinking the two coil packs should be changed and/or the catalytic converter as I believe it is original. I think they said only one of the new spark plugs was getting a spark. Another spark plug is black already.

Trying to start it now sounds different. Cousin says it sounds like someone stuffed a potato in the tail pipe (checked, no potato). So it seems like it's closer to starting.

Plan to tow it first thing tomorrow. I just don't have time to deal with all of this anymore and need a working car ASAP almost regardless of the price/cost.

If you have any suggestions for my mechanic, I'll gladly pass them along.

I'm sorry, I know one of you was asking for fuel pressure readings, I just don't know what they were.

[billr]

Still no compression readings? You are wandering in the weeds, strewing money in your path.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

There were readings I just don't know what they were. Doing the best I can with all of this. I know it's not how you would do it. Some things can't be helped.

[ZuluKono]

Have you confirmed that the fuel pump is working?
One way to check is have someone get underneath
the rear of the car while the key is turned off.
While they are listening, turn the key to the run position.
The fuel pump should run for about
three or four seconds and then shut off.
If you can't hear it come on, it's dead.
Care to have a few drinks with me later?

[toggenburg]

Is it possible that the cat is really clogged?
If you removed the front oxygen sensor (near the radiator fan motor area) and then tried starting, if then there is no back pressure to build up, it may start.
If so, and the cat is cooked, you can always bang hard on the cat and that might collapse some of the interior honeycombed baffles and may let your exhaust pass through.
Also, with the O2 sensor out, get a leaf blower running and place it into the tailpipe, it should sent air out that O2 sensor fitting.

[ZuluKono]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

Wet plugs indicate fuel.......

Pump could have been weak and finally died.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by ZuluKono

Have you confirmed that the fuel pump is working?
One way to check is have someone get underneath
the rear of the car while the key is turned off.
While they are listening, turn the key to the run position.
The fuel pump should run for about
three or four seconds and then shut off.
If you can't hear it come on, it's dead.
Care to have a few drinks with me later?

Yes, the fuel pump is definitely working. We wait to hear the pump go and watch the fuel gauge power up before we start the car (at least when the car is operating normally). We've been starting the car this way exclusively for the last 10 years or so.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by toggenburg

Is it possible that the cat is really clogged?

I needed my friend to help me decipher what you meant by "cat". Catalytic Converter, no?

It's been way too long of a day

[ZuluKono]

Originally Posted by 98SaturnSL2Bett

Yes, the fuel pump is definitely working. We wait to hear the pump go and watch the fuel gauge power up before we start the car (at least when the car is operating normally). We've been starting the car this way exclusively for the last 10 years or so.

Okay, sounds like it's not the pump.
Next thing I'd check is the ignition control module,
which is the thing that the coil packs are attached to.
Since it's an $80 to $100 part, I'd recommend
getting one from a junk yard if you live near one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XgHM1i5jK8
How about dinner? You like Thai?

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by ZuluKono

Okay, sounds like it's not the pump.
Next thing I'd check is the ignition control module,
which is the thing that the coil packs are attached to.
Since it's an $80 to $100 part, I'd recommend
getting one from a junk yard if you live near one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XgHM1i5jK8
How about dinner? You like Thai?

Thanks for this suggestion. I'll pass along to the mechanic for today. Car is to be picked up and towed over there this morning.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

So, just talked to my mechanic at the shop. The battery was low from us doing stuff with it all day yesterday so he plugged it into a charger. Then he started it. Started just fine for him. AGAIN!!!! It was running in the parking lot when he called to tell me the car got dropped off from the tow just fine.

Anyone interested in a lovely, 1998 Saturn SL2 (silver plum, no rust, no cracks in plastic, 140K miles) that's been well taken care of for it's whole life and just refuses to start for its owner any longer????????

So, 2 "unnecessary" tows have cost me $260 so far in these last 2 weeks of trying to deal with the F-in car. Not counting the labor and parts and labor and parts and parts and time and . . . . . which I'd be fine with, if IT WOULD JUST START FOR ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Un - f-in - believable.

[toggenburg]

Your's is probably not what my old 1991 Dodge Dakota had wrong with it, but the no-start-until-after-the-tow-truck-arrived was the same issue with my truck.
Replaced lots of stuff, both me and a reputable repair shop. But to no avail.
I finally replace the computer and it never failed to start after that.
Actually, it took 3 computer replacements to get it solved.
Initial one from autozone had my alternator spiked to like 18v (not good for electronics).
# 2 was the same one I turned in to autozone for the 1st replacement (looks like their "repair" shop did not find my computers exact issue so they returned it back to my same store to put on shelf for sale).
#3, I convinced the store manager to get one in from Richmond Va warehouse some 3 hours away from my store, and this one worked fine for like 10 years.

[alordofchaos]

That's weird. I don't see anything that would cause it to fail but did notice something about it starting again:

Originally Posted by 98SaturnSL2Bett

My shop was able to repeatedly start it there after wiping off the "wet" new plugs. Mechanic said they were wet with fuel after us trying to start it at home (had to tow it there last week). It started fine for them at the shop last week after charging the battery overnight (new battery from January 2019) and drying the wet plugs. Started dozens of times for them.

Originally Posted by 98SaturnSL2Bett

The battery was low from us doing stuff with it all day yesterday so he plugged it into a charger. Then he started it. Started just fine for him. AGAIN!!!!

Not sure where to go with this, since you didn't mention the battery sounding weak. And there's nothing I can think of off hand, related to loose wired or low battery, that would allow a car to turn over / crank normally but not fire the plugs and start. Maybe someone else has an idea.

Most parts stores will do a free battery / alternator check. Doubt that is the issue, though. Couldn't hurt to check the battery / cable connections; sometimes being just a bit loose can cause a little weirdness but usually it is in the form of the instrument panel flickering / cutting off for a second.

[billr]

I went through a PCM failure episode, the symptoms were very flaky but the initial and most obvious symptom was an intermittent "crank but no start". Sound familiar?

Check the 5V power at the MAP or TP sensors, or at the EGR valve; whichever is easiest for you. The 5V should come up instantly at key-on. If it is lazy, taking several seconds, or doesn't even come up to a good "5V" (4.80 to 5.20), then the PCM is suspect. Do this check many times, see if the results are consistent.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by billr

I went through a PCM failure episode, the symptoms were very flaky but the initial and most obvious symptom was an intermittent "crank but no start". Sound familiar?

Check the 5V power at the MAP or TP sensors, or at the EGR valve; whichever is easiest for you. The 5V should come up instantly at key-on. If it is lazy, taking several seconds, or doesn't even come up to a good "5V" (4.80 to 5.20), then the PCM is suspect. Do this check many times, see if the results are consistent.

Someone please spell out what a PCM is for me. Thanks. My brain's not working very well anymore.

[trottida]

I did have a no start condition that was related to a bad cell in the battery. However, the symptoms were no crank. It sound's like you are getting crank.

I also had one experience where the car died on the street and wouldn't start. I had it towed to my mechanic and it started up right away off the tow truck. I drove that car for years after that happened and never experienced the problem again.

[98SaturnSL2Bett]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

That's weird. I don't see anything that would cause it to fail but did notice something about it starting again:





Not sure where to go with this, since you didn't mention the battery sounding weak. And there's nothing I can think of off hand, related to loose wired or low battery, that would allow a car to turn over / crank normally but not fire the plugs and start. Maybe someone else has an idea.

Most parts stores will do a free battery / alternator check. Doubt that is the issue, though. Couldn't hurt to check the battery / cable connections; sometimes being just a bit loose can cause a little weirdness but usually it is in the form of the instrument panel flickering / cutting off for a second.

The battery is new from Fleet Farm from January of this year. A 72-month one I believe because that's what I usually buy. I've always had good luck with batteries from there. I don't think it's the battery. Dad's been charging it at home after working on it, though I'm pretty sure that didn't happen last night -- everyone was just way too exhausted after the long day.

Sounds like my shop is going to put in the 2 new coils and the xxx? computer thing that connects to that today. Then let it sit over the weekend in the rain and stuff (it has been wet and some very humid weather here) and see if it still starts for them on Monday. I guess I take it at that point and cross my fingers and hope that the 3 new parts fix it and I'll be able to start the car myself like I've been doing for 21+ years. God this makes me feel like an idiot.

[alordofchaos]

PCM = Power Control Module = car's computer. In your year, is a small silver box kind of behind the instrument panel. If you take off the top of the dash, you can see it

MAP or TP sensors, or at the EGR valve - these are all under the hood. Locations are shown here
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=12