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Old 05-01-2004, 08:16 AM   #1
gm7
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2009 VUE Red Line
Default 4 Engine/Trans Mounts?.....

Hi Guys,
Am pulling my dogbones out for 3M Windo Weld and have been reading the archives a bit. I thought there were only 3 driveline mounts but I found the following in the archives:

Archives:
if your car is an S-series, you should have a total of four mounts.
Top mount you already know about.
Lower engine strut "dogbone" can be easily seen by taking the front pass. side wheel off and removing the splashguard(s). You'll see it there right beneath the big pulley.
Upper transmission strut "dogbone" is right beneath the battery box--just remove the battery and you'll see it.
Finally, the lower transmission mount (the one Luke is referring to) is situated between the frame and the lower part of the transmission. Take off the driver's side wheel and splashguard(s) and you should see it right there.


Well... I only thought there were 2 dogbones and top mount....but according to the above there is a lower trans mount behind the driver side wheel splash shield.
What does this mount look like?...is it a dogbone?...or something different? Does the lower trans mount go bad like the other mounts?

Thanks for any input on this mount,
George

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Old 05-01-2004, 08:38 AM   #2
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It's a fairly small piece of rubber inside of half a metal housing. It bolts to the subframe the transmission sits on it. I replace mine about a year ago and the one that came out was pretty beat up.

...
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Old 05-01-2004, 08:56 AM   #3
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Thank you brother. Will check it out after I am done with the dogbones.
George

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Old 05-01-2004, 09:05 AM   #4
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you should see my lower trans. mount. There is practically NO rubber left after 213,000 miles! Needless to say, it's getting replaced soon!

...
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Old 05-01-2004, 10:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Fm withphone

you should see my lower trans. mount.

And you should have seen mine. I still have it, just to remind me to check the car's unit more frequently....

...
> 95 SL 2 = 653,369 Miles 40.4 MPG, as of 5/20/11. My manual Radiator Fan Switch, courtesy of Wolfman's patient installation guidance, continues to be.......invaluable < The car was retired

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Old 05-01-2004, 04:17 PM   #6
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GM7
I have no luck posting pictures into these messages. So here is a link to a picture of the lower trans mount. If this doesn't work., Look in my gallery for the picture.

I changed mine a few weeks ago. When you get the engine up high enough to get the old one out, You may have to jack it even higher to get the new one to fit.

The how-to,I believe Luke did was what I used to change mine .

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...20/ppuser/7130

Good luck!~

Greg

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Old 05-01-2004, 04:27 PM   #7
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My question is, will filling this mount with window weld cause any catastophic damage?

...
-Travis

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Old 05-01-2004, 05:11 PM   #8
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Have you seen any wind-weld?

It's sooooooo soft.

I'd know, I have a pair of wind-weld for sale...

...
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Old 05-01-2004, 05:38 PM   #9
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Huh? Its not softer than the air it replaces...

...
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Old 05-01-2004, 08:11 PM   #10
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Thanks a lot Guys...
My comment ProDarwin is there is no discernible trade off other than a bit more high frequency vibration into the cabin... noticeable at idle but negated or at least obscured once out on the open road by road NVH. The tradeoff is NVH versus performance. For most high performance cars the bias is skewed toward firmer versus compliant engine mounts. The achilles heel I have always felt since purchasing my Saturn in January is engine/trans rock when in gear with the clutch out and getting on and off the throttle say in 2nd gear cruising through my subdivision. Having driven automatic twin cam Saturns without the direct lockup of driveline to wheels as with a manual car...due to the inherent damping and decoupled nature of a torque converter with an automatic, this issue is not noticeable. Removing the dogbones and inspecting them...you are absolutely right....a lot of air in those mounts. This is purely for NVH. The breaches in the rubber filter the vibration wavelength from the engine to the car's body. Saturn IMO elected to commonize engine mounts between automatic and 5 speed cars for I presume economic reasons however I feel the stock mounts on a 5 speed car just don't cut it. I will accept a bit more ingression into the cabin in favor of feeling the driveline be more glued to the car. Just windo-welding the one mount under the battery tray made a definite improvement in how my car drives....doesn't require as much finesse with the throttle to drive it smoothly. The other dogbone that I removed today is drying while I type this :-) and we will see tomorrow how it feels with both.
As Amazing said...windo-weld is relatively soft and seems to be the perfect consistency or complement to rubber...compliant but firm to shore up the displacement/spaces in the rubber due to the driveline under torque. Another data point to consider is what SPS just came out with...Prothane solid urethane dogbones.
The question of course is...is the composite stiffness of stock rubber bones with window weld urethane similar to what the Prothane/SPS dogbone stiffness is. My sense is they are probably pretty close in aggragate stiffness. Other data point to consider is twistec mounts which takes it a lot farther as there is very little compliancy in favor of a very responsive/connected driveline. As a result many have reported with Twistec struts/mounts that they get more vibration into the passenger compartment.
In summary, no free lunch...a trade-off. Depends in large degree what your preference is.
George

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