SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2019, 09:26 PM   #1
feardamichael
New Member
feardamichael is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 3

2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Okay, I知 stumped.

Alright. I知 a decent backyard mechanic but in no way a professional. That being said, I totaled my girlfriends Kia a couple weeks ago and she picked up a Saturn LW300 a few days ago. We drove it home and it drove really nice, took a couple cranks to start but nothing too alarming. Got it registered today, so we put plates on it and we were gonna go for a drive but it wouldn稚 start.

I couldn稚 hear the fuel pump when I turned the key, so I checked the fuse and it looked good. Checked most of the other fuses to be on the safe side and none were blown. Swapped the relay with a known good one, can hear it clicking but still no fuel pump. Jumped terminal 87 to terminal 30 and the fuel pump runs, I can hear it moving fuel. Tried to start the car while jumpering the terminals and still wouldn稚 start.

I知 confused because I can occasionally hear the fuel pump, maybe 1 out of 10 times when I turn the key, it値l prime on its own. Even when it does, the car still cranks and doesn稚 start. Not sure where to troubleshoot now, as most of the threads pretty much come to an end here.

What would my next couple steps be to take? I feel bad that this car won稚 start seeing as how she just got it, even if she got it super cheap. Any and all help is appreciated, thank you so much In advance

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to feardamichael's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help feardamichael reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
feardamichael is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-05-2019, 12:39 AM   #2
Rj 2000 LS2
Member
Rj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the roughRj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the roughRj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 140

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Couple of things. If the Security Light is blinking on the instrument panel when the key is turned, then the infamous, "Hey, You're steeling my car system is working fine" and the fuel pump will not function. To fix this problem, turn the key to the ON position without starting it, like you could, and let is stay that way for 10 minutes. The security light will stop blinking and you can start the engine after switching OFF for a moment and then back to normal start function.

What happens is these Saturn's are very aware of any steering wheel movements before you attempt starting it. If you crank the wheel before starting, it won't start by design. It's an anti-theft feature also known as the Screw You Owner of GM Vehicle Anti-Theft Mechanism or SYOOGVATM LOL!!!

2nd, It could be flooded. If so, push the pedal to the floor and leave it there until it starts. When the pedal is to the floor the injectors are locked out and do not fire.

3rd It knows your girl friend previously owned a Kia! In that case, there is no hope!

4th Crank Position Sensor could be defective in which case nothing good happens much less a healthy start or no start at all.

5th The timing belt functioned long enough to get the newly purchased Saturn home and then it gave up the ghost.

Edit 6th The shift level must be in the Park Position and if the switch to detect it's in park is defective, the engine will not start.

No issues, it's #1, reset the security alarm with the 10 minute reset procedure and you'll be fine. There is a work around to fix this problem which requires a 2.2K ohm resistor and a bit of time. Basically, the GM key(s) are a resistor and when inserted into the start mechanism, it reads the resistance. As the keys get worn, the mechanism fails to read the proper resistance and the security alarm is set for a 10 minute delay while the ignition switch is set to run or ON, whichever it is, it times out. With a 2.2k ohm resistor you can fix the resistance to a constant value and the improper read never occurs. However, if while getting into the vehicle you monkey with the steering wheel as I do being a big ape... I sometimes trigger the security alarm. My wife never even touches the steering wheel when she lightly bounces on the seat. So naturally, she blames me every time it fuks up! LOL

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Rj 2000 LS2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Rj 2000 LS2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Rj 2000 LS2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2019, 04:25 PM   #3
feardamichael
New Member
feardamichael is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 3

2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Couple of things. If the Security Light is blinking on the instrument panel when the key is turned, then the infamous, "Hey, You're steeling my car system is working fine" and the fuel pump will not function. To fix this problem, turn the key to the ON position without starting it, like you could, and let is stay that way for 10 minutes. The security light will stop blinking and you can start the engine after switching OFF for a moment and then back to normal start function.

What happens is these Saturn's are very aware of any steering wheel movements before you attempt starting it. If you crank the wheel before starting, it won't start by design. It's an anti-theft feature also known as the Screw You Owner of GM Vehicle Anti-Theft Mechanism or SYOOGVATM LOL!!!

2nd, It could be flooded. If so, push the pedal to the floor and leave it there until it starts. When the pedal is to the floor the injectors are locked out and do not fire.

3rd It knows your girl friend previously owned a Kia! In that case, there is no hope!

4th Crank Position Sensor could be defective in which case nothing good happens much less a healthy start or no start at all.

5th The timing belt functioned long enough to get the newly purchased Saturn home and then it gave up the ghost.

Edit 6th The shift level must be in the Park Position and if the switch to detect it's in park is defective, the engine will not start.
1. Tried to do a 10 minute reset as described. No luck unfortunately.

2. Let it sit for a day and no luck. Also tried holding the pedal as I cranked. No luck.

3. I知 pretty sure the Saturn knowing she owned the Kia prior is the cause for the problems. LOL

4. I致e got a couple codes for the crank position sensor. Hoping that痴 the problem but since it won稚 stop raining and I don稚 have a garage, I知 gonna order from rockauto to save about $65.

5. It still sounds like it has solid compression when I crank it over, I can do a compression test to be sure. When it stops raining lmao

6. Are you talking neutral safety switch? Would the engine still crank if that were the case? I remember swapping one of those on my old 75 F100 a long time ago.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to feardamichael's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help feardamichael reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
feardamichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2019, 05:12 PM   #4
Rj 2000 LS2
Member
Rj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the roughRj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the roughRj 2000 LS2 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 140

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

6) Yes, I think you're right the engine won't spin.

If the crank position sensor is screwed... nothing will work right. Sometimes they get magnetic materials built up on them and then they don't work so well. Easy to fix, remove it, clean it and put it back in. However, I would still replace it. They can be flaky before they quit working all together.

The rain is an issue... it would be nice to dry the old girl out!

Try disconnecting the throttle position sensor and cranking the engine. Its another thing that COULD be causing the fuel injectors to not fire if it believes the pedal is to the floor.

First thing to do is stop the rain, then repair! Just that easy! LMAO Hey, you can come here and deal with -15 at night!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Rj 2000 LS2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Rj 2000 LS2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Rj 2000 LS2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 06:36 AM   #5
L300Dude
New Member
L300Dude is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Air delivery problem. You're looking at all the wrong places. Having misfires?? Replace spark plugs, valve cover head gaskets, ignition modules (cylinder 1 is always the one). Misfires ruin the Mass air flow and intake air temp sensor ( both information sensors) and your air delivery is dirty, causing blockage at the pcv housing. CLEAN IT!! and replace Mass air flow unit. Maybe egr too. Don't forget new egr gasket. Stop using starting fluid. If u do everything I said and still doesn't come on, go ahead and replace manifold absolute pressure sensor(also information sensor to the ecm/ecu/computer. That oil in the misfires gets in the way of these sensors that are needed to start the car. Information sensors are input sensors, while others like vehicle speed are output and don't determine start up. Lastly and very important clean around the throttle plate. This should do it amigo. My parents car sat 2 years with many different mechanics always, always pointing to the fuel pump. Yet there was always pressure at the Schrader. Haynes manual and this website is all I needed to get this puppy back on the road. First crank, every time now. It was weird, diagnosing because it would come on and run fine w/o ANY problem, but only one in 11 attempts to try to get it to come on. It would just crank or turn on very shaky and eventually shut off right after a loud misfire. And when it turned on, it had absolutely no shakes or no stalling. Nothing to look at. No vacuum leaks, no noises, no fuel smell, no oil leaks. Pressure at the Schrader always, no service wrench ever. And no hesitation on acceleration. Took me a whole 3 days, working maybe 2 or 3 hours a day. I noticed alot of oil inside the intake plenum. That's the giveaway you need air delivery. Happens because of oil getting into the rubber boots in the ignition module, eventually not sparking correctly and flooding gas in one cylinder, causing backfires, causing plugged information sensors, causing confused computer. That gunk also keeps the pcv housing from closing correctly and this causes lower compression. And.... No turn on or stalling.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to L300Dude's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help L300Dude reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
L300Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2019, 01:28 AM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,273
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Bypassing the fuel pump relay to get the pump running only gets fuel pressure to the injectors.

1-Are injectors operating?

2-Is spark generated on every plug?

Unless you remove coil packs and spark plugs to check for fuel, our engines are difficult to test for spark and injector operation. A simple method to test for both - spray starting fluid into throttle body and try starting. Artificially supplying fuel thru the throttle body while starting now counts on the ignition system to supply spark to ignite and run the engine briefly (presuming a fuel issue is the problem). If the engine won't startup then the ignition system, crank sensor and ecm are suspect. From here, troubleshooting becomes a little more complicated.

3-Do you see engine rpm on the tach when starting? There should be rpm indications while starting (250-500 rpm?).

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2019, 01:37 AM   #7
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,273
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Double post in error.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2019, 06:23 PM   #8
Shive
Member
Shive has a spectacular aura aboutShive has a spectacular aura aboutShive has a spectacular aura about
 
Shive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 53

2002 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2003 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

The first thing to do is spray some starter fluid in the intake.
If the engine starts the fuel pumps bad - if not something else is wrong.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Shive's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Shive reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Shive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2019, 06:43 PM   #9
Dsaturn
Member
Dsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really nice
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: West Virginia.
Posts: 277
 

2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shive View Post
The first thing to do is spray some starter fluid in the intake.
If the engine starts the fuel pumps bad - if not something else is wrong.
That is not always true. The injectors may not be working. There is another thread on this board discussing this.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=236171

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Dsaturn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Dsaturn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Dsaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2019, 04:17 PM   #10
feardamichael
New Member
feardamichael is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 3

2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

Okay so the CEL was on when she bought the car, but I was having issues with my code scanner. So I got a new one and scanned codes, there were quite a few:

P0102 mass air low circuit input
P1510 throttle control system performance
P1516 Throttle Actuator position performance
P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Malfunction
P0727 Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal
P1810 Transmission Fluid Pressure Valve Position Switch Circuit

Also there was a U1280 or something like that, I couldn稚 find what it was honestly.

Two of them point to the crank position sensor, so I figure that痴 probably why it isn稚 wanting to start. This all happened after it rained, so whenever it stops raining, I壇 like to check all the connections for corrosion or water.

It痴 been raining for a couple days out here so I haven稚 gotten around to spraying starter fluid in the intake, I will as soon as it stops but, and correct me if I知 wrong, the crank sensor would stop the car from getting spark right? We had a beetle in which it was going out, the car drove pretty slow and would occasionally stall but it almost always started back up.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to feardamichael's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help feardamichael reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
feardamichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 02:58 PM   #11
Tyson
Member
Tyson is a jewel in the roughTyson is a jewel in the roughTyson is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Milan Illinois
Posts: 80

2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Okay, I知 stumped.

I had same problem. Might try crankshaft position sensor. It痴 not the sensor. You have to look up crankshaft position sensor . It probably got worn out. 9 times out of ten this is the problem

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Tyson's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Tyson reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Tyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
stumped cantfigureitout Ion Tech 8 07-22-2014 12:27 PM
stumped...... spacetrace33 S-Series Tech 4 07-02-2013 03:08 PM
stumped 92SL25SPD S-Series Tech 21 04-07-2010 09:44 PM
Now I'm Stumped 1saxman Vue Tech 5 12-04-2008 11:48 PM
Stumped 1993_SL2driver S-Series Tech 10 11-08-2007 06:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.