SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Ion > Ion Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2017, 01:15 AM   #1
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Question 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Hello. I went to work no problems, when I got to my car to leave, it wouldn't crank so a coworker was going to jump me off. My car was backed in with no access to battery in trunk, so I was going to shift into gear and coast forward. Then I discovered the shifter was locked in Park.

I had the ignition key on, brakes pressed, turned the steering wheel back and forth a few times, still can't shift.

Finally got access to jump battery when another car moved, but still wouldn't start. Lights are on bright, not dimming, everything comes on.

I bought the car used over one year ago, no problems except replacing a bad coil pack. It has about 160K miles.

It seems that these two issues are related but I'm not sure.

Please let me know if you can advise what to do next. Thanks!
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-10-2017, 02:22 AM   #2
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Question Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

One more thing, a friend of mine suggested that it could be the result of a "soft theft lock." If that is the case, is there a method for resetting it? Thanks again!
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 05:05 AM   #3
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,874
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

There's a remote start terminal located by the engine fuse box. This is where a red jumper cable clamp connects, the negative jumper cable connected to any part of the engine block like the lift hook (bare metal). I don't know if the remote start terminal has a red plastic cap covering the stud; this stud is bolted to the fuse box and has the red battery cable connection from the rear trunk battery. This cable distributes power to the fuse box and has another cable going to the starter. The picture shows a hex stud. Flip the cap and check this stud - it may loosen and prevent good electrical connections. Starting issues are about power; battery, battery cables and their connections.

Check fuses to be sure main ones aren't blown. Ions use an 'electronic start' circuit - low voltage from the engine computer commanding a START relay to send battery power to the starter. A separate fuse and relay are additional parts of unconventional starting circuits. Your starting system is similar to the push button START used in many new cars except yours doesn't have the pushbutton and uses the ignition switch.

Is the trunk battery fully charged, dead and in need of charging or dying because its old? If in doubt, have it tested by any auto store selling car batteries. Both battery cables must be free and clean of corrosion, snugged securely to top or side terminals. Battery negative must be connected to chassis and engine block with clean connections. Battery positive runs from the battery to the front main fuse panel, terminating beside it at the remote start terminal. Check these connections carefully for corrosion and looseness.

Ions have GM's Passlock security system; it disables the starting circuit during a theft attempt and flashes the security light. Normal security blinks when Passlock is enabled with the remote key fob when locking doors. Disabled using the remote unlocks doors.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ion remote jump starting.jpg (132.4 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Ion remote jump starting pic.jpg (42.7 KB, 2 views)
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 11:07 AM   #4
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

I was so hoping you would see this post, fdryer. I had tried to message you but then it wasn't showing up in my outbox so I didn't know if you had received it or not. I had seen this same issue from last year where someone had the same problem but thought the diagram would be helpful so it is much appreciated!

I won't be able to try these things until after noon since I had to leave the car at work and won't get off work until after 8PM EST but I will certainly leave a note at that time to let you know how it went.

Thanks again, so very much!
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 11:14 AM   #5
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Also regarding your response, I haven't had the battery tested but we did try to jump it off and since all lights, bells, etc., were working as normal, the guy helping me said he was sure it wasn't the battery. I had left the key in the car a few weeks ago with the acc so the battery did go dead but I had it jumped then and it has been fine ever since, until last night.
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 08:09 PM   #6
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Mad Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Well, we tried everything,including new battery, still with no luck. Now getting error code U2105 but ran out of time and daylight.
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 10:07 PM   #7
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,874
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Here's a file for DTC's 2105-2199. DTC P2105 is inability to communicate with the ecm. Canbus communications is apart from diagnostic comms with canbus devoted for comms between modules - a higher speed without loading down the serial comm used for diagnostics. My guess is with added electronics and modules needing to communicate, the on board diagnostics system was overwhelmed so engineers adopted canbus comms from other industries using it.

I'm concerned about your installation of remote start doing something to the electronics. Can you explain what you did and found wrong with remote start installation and what you did to remove it? I'm wondering if a wiring mistake is interfering with the EFI system and comms to bcm - these two are the main modules for Passlock security. Anything you did may be related to why the car won't start.

The software start begins with Passlock security between bcm and ecm. Once security is satisfied, the ecm is allowed to send a start signal to the start relay. The start relay closes a set of heavy duty electrical contacts sending 12v to the starter solenoid that begins starter operation. The starter solenoid closes a set of heavier duty electrical contacts sending battery power to the starter motor to crank the engine. Something is interfering with the ecm from sending the start signal. Whether the ecm is damaged from miswiring or security preventing starting is the main question. You can test the starter, bypassing the software start by shorting the starter 'S' terminal to the large battery cable connection on the starter solenoid. The "S' terminal is the small one on the starter solenoid. This is the same method used by experienced mechanics to bypass the ignition switch to check for starter operation. Some connect a momentary switch with two clips, one to each terminal and press the button to crank the engine. If ignition is ON, the engine should startup.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DTC U2105-U2199.pdf (140.6 KB, 6 views)
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 11:26 PM   #8
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

My son didn't have his code reader yesterday so we don't know if that code was there before or not, but it's still doing exactly what it was doing before he even started looking into it, absolutely nothing is any different so I'm not sure how he could have done something to cause it?

The car was fine yesterday morning and when I got in after work, it wouldn't crank and the gearshift wouldn't come out of Park. I sent him all the information you had provided and I know he is precise and detail oriented but I was at work and unable to be out there to see exactly what he did or didn't do, other than replacing the battery. He isn't a mechanic, but has been working on his own vehicles for years. I believe he has too much on his own plate right now though, to get any more involved and he suggested it might be best to find an actual mechanic, so I guess I will look for a mobile mechanic tomorrow. He'll most likely have all the right tools anyway and will hopefully have hands on experience with this sort of thing. I am so upset but can't think of anything else to do
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 12:02 AM   #9
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,874
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

The Brake Transmission Shift Interlock (BTSI) is part of the fallout going back to the mysterious runaway Audi 5000's when drivers wouldn't admit not knowing the difference between the gas and brake pedal. That was a time when shift locks didn't exist and anyone can move the shift lever without pressing down on the brake pedal. Legislation passed and all vehicles are required to have us press the brake pedal before the shifter can be released from a solenoid operated locking tab to move out of Park position. The signal starts with the brake switch sending a signal to the bcm that commands the btsi to move and release the shift lever from park position. Are all the fuses checked? Under the hood and in the car? The bcm controls many functions not related to engine running and may have more than one fuse.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 12:10 AM   #10
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

I'll forward all this to him tomorrow to see if he wants to try more before I take it to a mechanic. I was really hoping not to have to do that
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 12:11 AM   #11
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Please know how much I appreciate all you're doing.
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 11:29 AM   #12
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

Update: Finally had to call in a mobile mechanic. After about three hours of diagnosing and eliminating, finally determined it is a bad ECM.
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2017, 09:15 PM   #13
vjhall
Junior Member
vjhall is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Dizzy Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

After 16 days without a car and more than $500 later, finally got to the root of the actual problem. A section of the cable leading from the battery to the ECM had corroded. It was in plain site about 6-8 inches from the battery. I will never understand why this was so difficult to diagnose by trained mechanics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (24.8 KB, 7 views)
vjhall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2017, 09:40 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,874
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 05 Ion Level 3 won't crank/automatic shifter locked in park

I think there's a world of difference between 'trained' mechanics and trained mechanics with 'experience'........ there are trained mechanics that are only able to function by following the book and cannot think outside the box when they fail and then the trained mechanics that have experienced problems outside the box and adjust to new problems when they pop up to have a greater overall perspective of things in general while viewing unusual problems. These people are the ones that can be described as the experts experts.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shifter stuck in park... silverariana S-Series Tech 9 07-14-2011 01:15 PM
2005 Saturn Ion won't crank in park or neutral rvsam Ion Tech 1 05-16-2011 07:37 PM
Can't get shifter out of park JimOmaha S-Series Tech 9 10-16-2009 10:39 AM
Shifter Squeaks Out of Park Ryan L300 L-Series Tech 0 04-25-2005 01:34 PM
Shifter Squeaks Out of Park Ryan L300 L-Series General 0 04-23-2005 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:00 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.